B&W 802 D2 vs 802 D3 showdown.

Interesting Steve - please keep us posted!

My dealer has been waiting a few months to get his 803D3 demo speakers, however there's apparently been a delay due to some initial manufacturing teething problems at the factory (not sure of details).  I'm looking to upgrade my 804D2 speakers, and very much looking to hear the 803D3s.  802s too large for my room, and 803D3s looking ideal size.

Am also hoping that in the future, B&W offer other wood finishes apart from the rosenut - a lighter stain would be good.  My wife not really loving the white or black option for our home.

Have fun with the demo!

ATB. George.

Good stuff. I hope it proves entertaining and instructive.

Really looking forward to it.

I have been an 802 owner for 10 years now, first with the D1s and then for the last four years with the D2s, how time passes! They have been one of my most significant upgrades over the decades, really perform excellently in my system, let the music engage you and the upstream system shine.

I have heard the 803 D3s and was impressed so I could not turn this opportunity down especially in the good company of Steve.

Should be a good afternoon!

Richard

FangfossFlyer posted:

 

I have heard the 803 D3s and was impressed so I could not turn this opportunity down especially in the good company of Steve.

 

Obviously difficult to say unless you heard them in identical systems, but would you give credence to the claim the new 803d3 are as good as the old 802d2?

GeeJay posted:

Interesting Steve - please keep us posted!

My dealer has been waiting a few months to get his 803D3 demo speakers, however there's apparently been a delay due to some initial manufacturing teething problems at the factory (not sure of details).  I'm looking to upgrade my 804D2 speakers, and very much looking to hear the 803D3s.  802s too large for my room, and 803D3s looking ideal size.

Am also hoping that in the future, B&W offer other wood finishes apart from the rosenut - a lighter stain would be good.  My wife not really loving the white or black option for our home.

Have fun with the demo!

ATB. George.

Hi George,

There aren't any specific manufacturing problems, just a huge demand for the speakers following release means that they are finding it difficult to produce a full range of speakers for the dealers and fulfil the customer orders at the same time.

I was told the Rosenut finish was produced for the US market where it's popular and that no other wood finishes were being produced. However, a dealer informed me that the company would probably entertain different paint colours, at an extra cost of course.

Eloise,

I was offered by one dealer to compare the new 802 D3 with the 800 D2. He was confident I would prefer the D3. He said that this applied across the board, so yes, it's likely the 803 D3 is better than the 802 D2.

Steve

Steve J posted:

I've finally managed to track down a dealer who still has a pair of 802 D2 speakers in the showroom. Tomorrow Richard (Fangfossflyer) and I will spend the afternoon comparing the two speakers. We both currently run the D2s in our systems.

Last Friday when I first visited the shop in Central London I managed to listen to a couple of tracks on the new D3 and was impressed enough to arrange the demo this week.

Will keep you posted, if interested.

 

Hi Steve, Hope you both find the demo revelling!  From what I remember they will need to be very very good to improve on what you already have.

Are you taking some vinyl? if so what....

Please do keep use all posted. G

No vinyl Graham, unfortunately. As it's a direct comparison between the two speakers the source isn't as important. Richard and I both have the 802 D2 so we're au fait with what they can do. 

We must get together again this year.

Steve

Steve J posted:

 

We must get together again this year.

Steve

Love too take care...G

I am just on the train home to York after the dem and will let Steve respond first if he likes to... but an illuminating afternoon.

Thanks, Steve.

Richard

I have a premonition there may be some additional expenditure shortly...

tonym posted:

I have a premonition there may be some additional expenditure shortly...

Brilliant, and whilst at it Steve, can you buy a pair for me as well I am your long lost son after all!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys I have to get ready to go out this evening. Will report with some pictures tomorrow. Suffice to say I had a pleasant listening session with Richard and we were both impressed with the new 802 D3's.

Richard and I spent a pleasant couple of hours comparing the 802 D2 with the new D3. The system wasn't in the same league as our own 500 series comprising an Arcam FMJ A49 amp with a Meridian 808 pre/streamer and Chord Sarum speaker cable. The two speakers were placed side by side. Tracks were chosen and placed on a play queue using Tidal.

As you can see from the photos above (sorry about the iPhone quality) the D3s are significantly taller and, as a result of the rounded front and slightly smaller mid range casing, appear slimmer. Physically they are of excellent build quality but from an aesthetic point of view I'm not so keen on the silver Continuum cone or the central black button compared with the D2, although I prefer the new streamlined appearance.

A number of tracks were played through the D2s then the D3s. It was immediately obvious the system wasn't showing the speakers at their best but it was adequate to show the difference between the two speakers. On changing from the D2s to the D3s there was an improved 3D soundstage with more definition of the instruments. One could describe the effect as there appeared to be more 'air' around them. There was more focus and grip to the music. For example, on CSN&Y 'Carry On' there is a fine cymbal in the background and this was much easier to define. In addition there was better bass definition and timing with Kenny Burrell's 'Chittlin Con Carne' sounding much more dynamic compared with the D2s.  Bass was there in spades, especially noticeable in a piece of classical music featuring a bassoon which positively growled.  The music was overall more engaging and tuneful.

As an aside, there was a track we couldn't find on Tidal, Yello's 'The Race', which meant using a different streaming service. This also mean't we had to listen through a Naim DAC which showed it to be far superior to the Meridian!

Taking into account the D3 is almost a completely new speaker, with the exception of the tweeter and a few nuts and bolts, the build quality and sonic improvement would seem to warrant the increase in price, certainly compared with the price hike of the Kudos 88 to 808.

From a personal point of view I'm not going to rush out and buy a pair as I would like to hear what they can do in my system and I'd also like to compare them to other speakers like the Titans and maybe the Magico's.

As always, it was good to spend some time with Richard.

Steve

Thanks Steve. To me they look more elegant than the D2 model, although I think some of the detailing is fussy.  Shame about the rest of the system. I think that the 800 series (not just the bigger ones) respond very positively to source and power quality. The source material ranks as more Mu-So league but I guess we have to start somewhere and the signs are good. It's ultimately going to come down to the room. I can't say I'm in any more of a hurry than you but I am interested.

Interesting write up, Steve. Must say I'm a bit surprised at the dealer's choice of amp. I'm a fan of Arcam, which I use in my HT system, but I wouldn't have thought an A49 would be up to driving power-hungry B&Ws.  Anyway from the pictures you've posted I think the slimmer-line new model looks smart.

Mike  

Mike, 

The A49 has plenty of 'power' at 200W per channel at 8ohm and was favourably reviewed by Martin Collums in HiFi Critic but it's definitely no NAP 500. It served it's purpose to demonstrate the difference between the two speakers but when I played a few of the tracks from the demo on the home system my 802s sounded better being driven by 500.

Steve

Steve J posted:

Mike, 

The A49 has plenty of 'power' at 200W per channel at 8ohm and was favourably reviewed by Martin Collums in HiFi Critic but it's definitely no NAP 500. It served it's purpose to demonstrate the difference between the two speakers but when I played a few of the tracks from the demo on the home system my 802s sounded better being driven by 500.

Steve

My FMJ AVR750 delivers 100Ws into 7 channels, more if your use fewer channels.  It sounds beefier that my old nVI but I've never felt it had the heft of my 250.2 which has only 80wpc.  So I'm not surprised your 500 sounds much better driving the 802s

Mike 

interesting report Steve.

i have heard, i believe they were, 802D2's sounding very good at the end of a Naim system at Infidelity... so i guess the omens are good for the upgrade.

enjoy

ken

They look to have better proportions, from the photo I don't really like the silver cone and like the high back of the old ones.

If my numbers come up, well...

My observations are similar to Steve's and I was very impressed by the 802D3s. They certainly pulled me into the music and performance with a great sense of realism and depth. A definite step forward by B&W so well done to them.

Whilst the upstream system on dem was not as compelling as mine, or Steve’s for that matter, it was more than adequate for comparative purposes and showed me, a bit of an analogue luddite, how far digital replay has progressed!

But getting home I was even more impressed by my 802D2s in my Naim – Linn LP12 system. One track brought this home to me was Steel Pulse’s Handsworth Revolution that in the dem with the 802Ds I had to cut short as it sounded just so flat, ordinary and lacking any real engagement. But at home with my 802D2s it came back to life with real depth, resonance, conviction and musical flow….so well done Naim and Linn…. I wonder what it would be like at home with 802D3s???

Back to the D2 v D3 comparison, it is hard what more to add as it really is a new speaker that keeps all the depth and engagement of the D2s but somehow is clearer without being cold or analytical and has the ability to draw you into the music.

As regards a comparison between the 802D2s and 803D3s we did not do this but I have heard the 803D3s before. What I would say form recollection is that you can tell that the 803D3 are in the same family as the 802D3s but have a different presentation to the 802D2s which I would say have more depth and, too me, emotion than the 803D3s. But after saying that I would recommend anyone to dem the 803D3s as I am sure they will appeal to many.

So I liked the 802D3s very much and even contemplated with Steve that such an upgrade for me would be more beneficial than all this demoing and contemplation I have been doing as regards Naim SL, and Chord, cables and interconnects. As I felt the 802D3 upgrade would probably far out perform these in terms of musicality, engagement and value for money. Although, I would not contemplate such without an extended home dem.

But in the cool light of day and returning home to my system I am just so delighted with it and the 802Ds that I do not really feel the urge to make any significant change…apart from getting my NAP serviced with a potential DR upgrade that is!

And once again, thanks Steve.

Richard

Thanks for the feedback (and pictures) Steve and Richard!  Your feedback has certainly whetted the appetite for my audition of the D3s. 

Fortunately, my Naim Dealer is able to replicate my home Naim arrangement, so I certainly hope that my audition to be more akin to my own set up (rather than trying to figure out what a different system is adding or subtracting, even if only done as a comparison between speakers).  If all looks good there, then will move to next stage of home demo.  Don't want to be lugging those large speakers around unnecessarily!

I know that there is a school of thought amongst some that speakers won’t sound right unless there are no other speaker systems in the same room - interesting that your photo shows both pairs of speakers in the room at the same time.  Did you perceive or pick up any issues with this?

Steve, on the wood colour, apparently B&W use the same wood veneer as they did for the cherry used in the D2s - just stained more darkly.  I hear that during a dealer visit to Steyning, when asked, B&W didn't rule out the possibility of different stains in the future.  Also, on the technical issues, I did hear that they had 'leakage issues' (from where the aluminium spline on the 803D3 and 802D3 is joined to the wooden carcass at the rear of the speaker, however had overcome this issue now.   In terms of ordering backlog, B&W have reportedly been making the D3s since March 2015, however due to popularity, there's still been a delay satisfying demand.  These speakers deserve to do well for B&W - they've certainly invested much in this product.

Thanks again guys - great reviews and feedback - much appreciated.

ATB.  G.

Fantastic looking speakers - what a choice to have to make 

Steve / Richard

Nice reports - I think the D3s have the better look - when will you be doing the home dem?

thanks for nice reports which will motivate many to go hear the new D3.

When I heard them, they were driven off classe amps, and although I used my Hugo as a source, it wasn't quite the same result as I hear when Naim amps are driving B&W Speakers - which is expected, but the differences in presentation and musicality were too large to ignore.

Difficult to make a judgement call without the same amp that one uses at home especially at this level of expenditure.

I think Steve J once made a very valid comment about my test of KDS/1 vs Hugo - the same interconnects were not used on both (the KDS/1 had a 1000 GBP Vertere interconnect -and the Hugo did not) and now I realize that my test was worthless, so I think with an amp which is not Naim, not sure if any evaluation of the B&W is really feasible, possible or accurate.

Chris Dolan posted:

Steve / Richard

Nice reports - I think the D3s have the better look - when will you be doing the home dem?

Hi Chris,

I'm not yet at the stage for a home demo. As mentioned above I'll arrange listening session with another dealer who can set it up with a 552/500 as I use at home first.

Steve