Naim Choice

As I've posted on another thread...

"Hi Guys,

The Uniti / UnitiQute and NDX buffer a few seconds worth of audio at 320kilobits which is normally more than enough but there can well be a lot of hops between the start and end of the streamed audio chain - once it is "broadcast" then the data is passed between servers out on the internet until eventually it reaches you.

It is perfectly feasible that the route that the data takes can be delayed (blocks of data may even take quite different routes) and neither we (Naim) nor the broadcaster (in this case Linn) have any influence on that - the practical result of this is that if the latency of the connection between the start and end of the chain gets too great then the buffer eventually empties before there's enough data coming in to replenish it. Of course - lower bitrate streams mean that we can buffer a longer duration of audio and so cover over longer drops in data before buffers empty and you get a dropout.

PCs don't suffer with this so badly as they can generally pre-buffer more data to take account of high latency connections but eventually they will suffer the same issue if the overall average data rate from the source isn't high enough and consistent enough.

We have tested the Uniti / UnitiQute and NDX on 320kilobits streams and they are all more than capable of playing such streams given most expected conditions however we cannot cover *ALL* situations - if a lower bitrate stream is available then choosing that should resolve the issue.

Cheers

Phil"

I posted this on hf-fi corner but was pointed to this thread on streaming audio.

Question. Has anyone looked into bandwidth use when streaming I Radio ?

How many Meg would a 320k station use for every hour of use. I have a 60gig/month limit on my broadband which sounds enough but you never know.

Easy enough to work out...

Assuming a constant bitrate of 320kbits then that's (320 * 1024 / 8) = 40kbytes per second.

That means 40 * 60 * 60 = 144,000 kilobytes per hour or (144000 / 1024) = 140.625mbytes per hour.

If you have a 60Gb allowance then that's (60 * 1024) = 61,440mbytes per month allowance from your ISP.

61440 (mbytes per month allowance) / 140.625 (mbytes per hour) = 436.9 (approx) hours of streaming at 320kilobits/sec which is 436.9 / 24 = 18.2 (approx) days of solid listening.

Phil

Topical! I just went over my 40Gb per month limit and got a letter from my provider saying that I've gone over for a few months now if I do it again they will up my limit to 80Gb for  an extra £5. Gotta be worth it!

Neil

Thanks Phil

I wouldn't have expected any less from Tech Support

I have had the same problem a few times since I bought my Uniti 6 months ago.  It happens every few weeks, randomly, like when I listen to Antenne Bayern, Best 80's Radio etc.

Each time the Uniti plays well but becomes completelly non-responsive to any button on the front panel or the remote.  The only cure is hard switch off and then a VERY LOUD POP is heard through the speakers.

I have flagged this issue a few times and somebody from Naim has acknowledged it and promissed to look into it but I have not seen any update in the forums yet.

It looks like it is a software bug rather than a hardware issue but it would really help if somebody from Naim investigates it a bit further.

My nearest Naim dealer is 1000km away in Dubai and although my machine is under the warranty I cannot just take it there for a "medical".  And I doubt they would be able to replicate the problem on the day let alone solve it.

Any update Naim, please?  Thanks.

Bobby

If anyone, like me, has been trying to work out how to enable Naim Choice on their Unity, I had to reset factory defaults.  Then when you go to iRadio and pull up the listings, you get all sorts of new goodies (to me anyway) including Naim Choice. 

I must say, the 320kb/s stations sound fantastic, but I do get the same issue as some people above with 320Kb/s Paradise not able to keep the buffer full and dropping out, but others like KCRW are fine. Just the internet though I think. No guarantees on delivery.

Hi Guys,

AM I correct that not all stations form the "Naim's Choice" selection are at 320kbps ? I like to listen to Folk Radio UK which is in the Naim's Choice list, but it always streams at 128kbps. I sthis correct ?

Iver

That's correct - the Naim's Choice stations are there simply because we find them interesting. They're at all sorts of bitrates.

Cheers

Phil

Hi Phil -

Do you know of any search or sort facility that would allow us to see all internet radio stations that are currently broadcasting above a certain bit rate threshold? 

Or, even better, it would be really nice if nStream had an advanced search filter, one where I could restrict my view, for example, to only those stations streaming at 320kbps.  Is that metadata readily available, or do you have to tune in to find out?

I seem to recall a spreadsheet that you (or was it another Naim employee) published a while back of "high def" stations.  Was that hand built?

Thanks!

Hook

would interest me too !

Hook, Iver,

vTuner can help you, but you need to browse by genre, location or language first. Then you can sort by "Fastest Speed" (!?).

Example for Jazz

HTH

Maurice

Very cool -- thanks Maurice!

Hook

Interesting...

I was not aware that any internet radio stations were broadcasting higher than 320kbps, so I used nStream to tune into those listed at higher bit rates in vTuner, and here's what I found:

Jazznet - 32kb/sec

SheetMusicDB.net - Jazz Ensemble - 32kb/sec

JazzRadio - Timeless Classics - 64kb/sec

Groove 107.7 FM - 128kb/sec

Swissradio Jazz and Swing - 128kb/sec

Linn Jazz - 320kb/sec

Swissradio Modern Jazz - 128kb/sec

Then, just to confirm, I used vTuner to open "JazzRadio - Timeless Classics".  This downloaded a podcast, and opened iTunes, whose "Get Info" command also returned 64kb/sec as the bit rate.

So, this leaves me wondering if these stations broadcast at different bit rates at different times?  Did vTuner just happen to sample them at the right time (e.g., when "JazzRadio - Timeless Classics" really was playing at 420kb/sec)?  Or is vTuner simply not giving us accurate information?

Thanks!

Hook

No, you're right Hook, this doesn't seem to be reliable.

At least for Swissradio Modern Jazz, advertised as 317, it's actually 128 here too.

Sorry I didn't check, I'm using internet radio only occasionally (talk about a scientific background... mpf).

Back to your original question I'm afraid

No as the stations can dynamically vary their streaming bitrate on the fly and without reporting it until you "tune" to it...

Cheers

Phil