Ethernet cable installation...

sounds like i should probably investigate Meicord Opal Cat-6 as well? and they seem quite a bit cheaper than AQ Cinnamon... this messing about never ends, does it.

thanks for your comments Mike-B.

i have to say, as far as i can tell, the sound of my system is not worse -- but i sense a tad harshness -- but this could easily be the effects on my hearing of the wine i am drinking  right now :-)

enjoy

ken

Ken

In my experience the most obvious sound improvement is on the 'last leg' ie between the socked and the streamer. Unlike Mike I do hear the difference between the cables (but we've had our discussion on that already ). 

Another thing you may contemplate is an upgraded power supply for your NAS. The one you have is most likely a cheap 'switch-mode' type. Those tend to be very 'noisy' and polute the network.

Adam,

Thanks for comments -- i am going to look at these Meicord Opal Cat-6 -- perhaps i will just settle for these and put this matter to rest. Yeah, whatever...

I have a NetGear ReadyNAS Duo. what 'upgraded' power supply do you recommend? This seems to be something i can do rather easily.

reminds me, the guys who were installing the security system accidentally triggered the consumer unsit to switch off -- fortunately, my system is on another consumer unit. you should have seen me giving very firm instructure not to touch the other one. However, the streaming stuff  -- router, NAS, switch, Airport Express are all on the house mains and so these were powered down as well. now i had a UPS, but the battery is gone -- and i need to replace it. when we restored power -- i had a very nervous half an hour where the NDS was reporting that it couldnt find any music files on the NAS!!! a few powercycles sorted out the problem.

yeah, i really need to replace that battery :-(

enjoy

ken

Ken - any power supply that is not switch-mode will do.  But don't pay over the odds for it.

Due to forum-specifc rules I cannot recommend a power supply and a name in this reply.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ken - any power supply that is not switch-mode will do.  But don't pay over the odds for it.

Due to forum-specifc rules I cannot recommend a power supply and a name in this reply.

 

my email is in my profile suitably disguised from email harvesters... feel free to mail me..

enjoy

ken

Mike-B posted:

Ken,  don't jump to another cable too fast,  it takes time to really hear the cables, you need to savour the flavour,  smell the grass man.   I do hear differences,  its just not that obvious most of the time for me without a few hours of immersion.  You might find the Meicords a bit rich in the bass,  less detailed in treble, it really depends of the whole of your system, it all about synergy. 

Then you need to balance the cost,  bang for buck,  is the sonic changes between >£1000 of AQ vs Maplins best quality £10 worth that price difference.  

Then go read the ethernet tests that the loons on Lejonklou forum have run & its fav rave MicroConnect cables at £1 a metre from Amazon  ............ you might end up a bit   

good advice Mike-B, i think. and i like to "smell the grass" 

right now, the AQ Cinnamon 0.75m is only between the switch and the NAS drive -- all other ethernet cables are the bog-std cheapies. perhaps this will not allow me to assess this brand properly -- as the AQ is shielded and the others are not. will something explode?? 

i am certainly not going to spend any time auditioning Ethernet cables -- life's too short and i am not a young man! i will either keep the bog std ones i have, move to AQ or try the Meicords (there is a contradiction in there somewhere...)

enjoy

ken

I did try the Meicord cables a couple of years back after reading about them in Critic. Agree with Mike, very well made and a very solid connection. Unfortunately, they made no difference in my particular setup and so they went back. I still use some Audioquest forest cables which i did find made a very small difference over some unbranded patch cables and were worth keeping. As with all these things, best to try for yourself. Different setups, different ears etc...

Not sure what the UPnP source is for your NDS Ken but at your level of system it might be worth a loan of a Melco to try. 

James

Indeed for audio, 'better' Ethernet cables sometimes cost very little.. It's a lottery of environment and cable/plug construction. I bought/acquired  several cheap cables of differing constructions and swapped them in connecting to my NDX.. and simply choose the best sounding one.. Some were quite different, others had very little difference.. I think the most expensive was 20 quid. In the end I opted for a no name shielded Cat 6a cable with a ferrite clamp..  good game for a rainy Sunday afternoon. And yes no significant differences.. But feel and upper mids seemed to be where the differences lay.. no doubt through differing low level RF ground plane modulation.

Simon

I too switched from OTC Cat6 to AQ cinnamon Cat7 a few weeks back, mostly in the hope that being screened they might help reduce unwanted interference effects. Cannot notice sound differences to be honest...

Somehow from another thread of Mike-B I got the impression that screened cables might create grounding issues but this topic is a bit unclear to me still. The linear PS topic I find very interesting and would like myself to try this iFi thing at some point.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ken - any power supply that is not switch-mode will do.  But don't pay over the odds for it.

Due to forum-specifc rules I cannot recommend a power supply and a name in this reply.

 

Oh really?

I understand not discussing alternatives to power supplies for Naim boxes but what is the issue with NAS power?

Bananahead posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ken - any power supply that is not switch-mode will do.  But don't pay over the odds for it.

Due to forum-specifc rules I cannot recommend a power supply and a name in this reply.

 

Oh really?

I understand not discussing alternatives to power supplies for Naim boxes but what is the issue with NAS power?

Well - by mistake I replied with words like 'power supply' and a 'name' and my reply was automatically blocked. The forum rules are very clear here for a very good reason. A thread could easily get out of control. And after all this a forum for NAIM equipment, not alternatives to it   So I replied differently.

If Richard is reading this: please delete my blocked reply. The case is now closed.

I have Audioquest Ethernet and they made a big difference to my system.

However, I would hope that the SL cables would make a much bigger difference, given that they are hugely more expensive than Audioquest Cinnamon, unless you are buying very long lengths.

Keith

DrPo posted:

I too switched from OTC Cat6 to AQ cinnamon Cat7 a few weeks back, mostly in the hope that being screened they might help reduce unwanted interference effects. Cannot notice sound differences to be honest...

Somehow from another thread of Mike-B I got the impression that screened cables might create grounding issues but this topic is a bit unclear to me still. The linear PS topic I find very interesting and would like myself to try this iFi thing at some point.

I still can't see the point of screened Ethernet in a domestic environment. It just adds more complication to what should be plug and play for (what i can observe) little, if any gain.

The KISS approach works for me. 

I use QNAP HS-251 Silent NAS - upgraded it with a Teddy Pardo power supply (this recommendation is OK for the forum, since we are not talking about power supplies for NAIM equipment). Basically I am sure there is a number of power supplies, that do not use a switch-mode solution, but I only know one. 
I haven't tested it back-and-forth so I cannot comment on the sound quality. It does not sound worse and at least it makes me feel good

Can you put your NAS on a dedicated mains spurr at least to avoid interefrence from your hairdryer / fridge etc etc?

Battery in UPS - yeap. The do run out.

well, i had the AQ Cinnamon 0.75m between my Netgear ReadyNAS Duo and the switch connected for the most part of yesterday evening and i just left it there playing tunes randomly selected from a long playlist streamed via NDS.

There was a definite difference and for a while i wasnt sure whether this was better or worse. But i just left it playing while i was working. Then very late last night, i noticed something that i didnt like at all while playing one of Beethoven piano trios. There was a somewhat exaggerated resonance to the sound of this instrument -- and i checked on other similar pieces and that characteristic persisted. Definitely interfering  with 'music'. before i went to bed, i removed the AQ cable and replaced it with one that came with the NAS, so i am back to where i was. 

unless there are other factors at play here (well, i guess there always are! my ears for example... but perhaps more significantly -- the other ethernet cable switch to NDS was any 'ordinary' type) this cable doesnt suit my system at all. it destroys the very fine balance that i have become used to where instruments are 'believable' and not exaggerated in any way. 

I may try Meicord at some point -- i will test it the same way -- start with short length from NAS to switch.

Hmmm...

enjoy

ken

I was using a cat5e Ethernet cable on the muso and i was getting terrible drop outs on the internet radio. I swopped with various cables and ended up with a chord company c-stream cat7. I thought with it's better screening cable qualities it would cure the drop outs, well I still get good days and bad days of drop outs, so I don't think it's the cable. Does the audio quality sound any better with the c-stream cat7 cable than with the cheap cable ?.....NO. Have I wasted £55, even though i admit it's a nice quality cable ?.....YES.

Ken,  I had a thing with my new Meicord's that has a similarity to your Beethoven piano resonance:  I was playing a favourite "atmosphere" album - John Huling's "Mesa Sunrise"  its all native american drums & various whistles & pipes. Mrs Mike startled up saying the pipes were making her neck glands resonate,  not each note, just the lower register ones.  I could not hear or feel it,  but when I moved over to her listening chair,  I had it as well.  Not unpleasant & I am not blaming the Meicord's,  plus it disappears with a slightly lower volume.  

Super,  I'm not surprised a cable change did not fix the drop-outs, if the old Cat5 was defective, then yes any cable change will fix it,  but a higher spec cable does not do much other than (maybe) clean up the SQ;  you need to look at your broadband methinks.  

Hi Mike, I've on this forum before about drop outs and it doesn't matter whether it's wi fi or Ethernet connected it's the same. I could have the same radio on the pc and it doesn't drop out, it's weird one. I have had it on today for a few hours and it's been perfect but tomorrow .....who knows.

Have you contacted Naim Support ?? 

Hi Ken,

Interesting findings, which more or less mirror my own.  I tried the AQ Cinnamon a couple of years back on the same set up as yours (NAS, switch and NDS at any rate) and initially thought it brought a little more detail and transparency to things. However, I found myself listening to less music and realised it was because the system was not engaging me with the music in the same way.  I put the Chord C-Streams back in and voila; a touch of warmth was restored along with my musical engagement and sanity.

The changes, though subtle, were ultimately, over time, important to system synergy.

As an aside I also tried one of Chord's esoteric offerings between switch and NDS which extracted more detail but in a very hi-fi ish way which ultimately left me cold.  I haven't revisited Ethernet since.

Super Lumina, on the other hand...

Cheers,

Ian

Mike-B posted:

Ken,  I had a thing with my new Meicord's that has a similarity to your Beethoven piano resonance:  I was playing a favourite "atmosphere" album - John Huling's "Mesa Sunrise"  its all native american drums & various whistles & pipes. Mrs Mike startled up saying the pipes were making her neck glands resonate,  not each note, just the lower register ones.  I could not hear or feel it,  but when I moved over to her listening chair,  I had it as well.  Not unpleasant & I am not blaming the Meicord's,  plus it disappears with a slightly lower volume.  

Super,  I'm not surprised a cable change did not fix the drop-outs, if the old Cat5 was defective, then yes any cable change will fix it,  but a higher spec cable does not do much other than (maybe) clean up the SQ;  you need to look at your broadband methinks.  

all very interesring this -- if a bit expensive -- but in a way its good to actually experience it.  very strange that this cable would induce such acute position dependency! but what i heard i believe wasnt listening position dependent at all -- it started off as some discomfort that i couldnt pin down -- ethernet cables dont need warm up right? i also noticed that there are some directional markers on the short cable. wow! then when i got specific tracks with lots of piano -- the problem was much clearer -- over-resonant and quite inaccurate sound. before i disconnected, i also played Randy Crawford's "Tender fall the rain" -- this was the nail in the coffin -- i felt the cable destroyed the emotive musicality in this track...

ah well...

enjoy

ken

Ian F posted:

Hi Ken,

Interesting findings, which more or less mirror my own.  I tried the AQ Cinnamon a couple of years back on the same set up as yours (NAS, switch and NDS at any rate) and initially thought it brought a little more detail and transparency to things. However, I found myself listening to less music and realised it was because the system was not engaging me with the music in the same way.  I put the Chord C-Streams back in and voila; a touch of warmth was restored along with my musical engagement and sanity.

The changes, though subtle, were ultimately, over time, important to system synergy.

As an aside I also tried one of Chord's esoteric offerings between switch and NDS which extracted more detail but in a very hi-fi ish way which ultimately left me cold.  I haven't revisited Ethernet since.

Super Lumina, on the other hand...

Cheers,

Ian

Thanks for sharing Ian. Glad i didnt leave it in long enough to lose interest in my music -- that would have been a disaster!

Lets see if the Meicords will fare any beter...

enjoy

ken

As a cinnamon user, it fills me with wonder that people think an ethernet cable can alter the sound in any way other than providing a more secure connection.

I am now looking forward to a thread that discusses the different sonic signatures that broadband providers overlay onto Tidal  streams.