Ethernet cable installation...

have re-arranged things a bit as suggested here - the switch is now doesnt sit atop the UPS  -- the airport express still does, but i dont believe this would have any sonic effects as right now all my music is delivered wired. i have  tried to separate power and net cables as much as i can without going loopy about it...

i will run with this for a while and see if i can live with it. else i will revert to previous setup.

enjoy

ken

Ken

Just a word of advice - best keep your ethernet wires away from your wifi antennas. I can't say it will affect sound quality - but is good practice to route wiring down and away from wifi antenna for optimum error free wifi performance.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Ken

Just a word of advice - best keep your ethernet wires away from your wifi antennas. I can't say it will affect sound quality - but is good practice to route wiring down and away from wifi antenna for optimum error free wifi performance.

Simon

Thanks Simon, moved them up a bit and created a a bit a distance to the antennae. that will do for now unless i pick up a deterioration in music performance -- then i will just go back to last known good config... i really dont want to spend too much time doing any more cable dressing around comms equipment --i think what i have is good enough -- 

enjoy

ken

Fully concur with Simon's advice around separation between Wifi and audio runs. I found increasing to 1.5 - 2m between the Wifi router and my head-end switch, with multiple ferries, helped a lot.

I now run a fibre link down to my audio system which has brought an increased effortless. On the one occasion I've reverted to Cat6 the system had a noticeable loss of micro dynamics, flow and natural timbre.

well, after all the repositioning etc. i played NDS this evening and i am afraid all is not well.  My NAT01 sounds fine so the underperformance seems localised to streamer.

however, i have windows explorer currently copying my whole music library from the the NAS drive to a local USB attached to my PC -- this is for off-site backup. i suspect the copy traffic may be generating some noise in the network so will wait till its finished (8 hrs to go!!) and then re-assess... I doubt its got anything to do with proximity of net cables to wifi antennae as they were not that well isolated even before all this faffing about anyhow. but at least i have a a setup i can go back to and hopefully normal service will be restored...

enjoy...

ken

My ethernet cable is the same as Cymbiosis use in there new palace, standard Cat5.

You'd expect something a bit more regal. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

You'd expect something a bit more regal. 

interesting new avatar Nigel 

enjoy

ken

Mike-B posted:

Hi JohnG,  hope all OK after the shake-up.    

Quick question on the switch move,  what switch make/model is it ?   I ask because I had the same thing with a friends system a while back,  I moved it from standing (wedged) between NAS & UPS,  raising it to a shelf just (only) 10cm above the NAS & UPS.  He noticed an SQ gain straight away , which we assumed was a cable change from a batted old Cat5 that was slightly & obviously damaged,  to a new but vin-ordinaire Cat6.  

The switch is a plastic case TP-Link & this post of yours got me thinking about shielding of switches, & am wondering if its something to consider for plastic cased  switches - or even metal cased for that matter (???)

 

Cheers ............  

Hi Mike  no damage thankfully from our little shake.

I have 2 switches - a generic Taiwanese brand    http://www.smc.com - product/30/0

and a Cisco 2960    http://www.cisco.com - 2960g.

I use AQ Forest to connect both switches, and a Synology DS414 with minimserver  to the 2960, and Syn DS213 with the music library to the SMC.  The 2960 is connected with AQ vodka to the NDX.  All other general network stuff is connected to the SMC.  Both switches have metal cases.  I did have a modem/router sitting directly on top of the cabinet over the SMC in the previous setup and on relocating the modem (prior to this latest change) there was a subtle change for the better which suggests that maybe the metal cases do not shield very effectively.  I am just having another listening session which confirms my initial impressions of the not subtle improvement by moving the switches away from the 2 x NAS and UPS onto a separate rack with 30cm free space above & below from other hardware (bluray player above and modem/router & TPXPS psu below).

Good news about the shake-up John. 

My Netgear GS105 ProSafe is metal cased & its located on a wood shelf about 10cm directly above the UPS,  I'm not going to move it, but if time permits today I will try placing a sheet of steel (ferrous) under it & see if that does anything/nothing.  

An interesting if slightly concerning thread.

I can understand if you've got a rack full of audio and networking gear that moving things about may change things for the better as really these things are best separated but...

If you hear changes from moving networking kit about when it's well away from the Hi-Fi in another part of the house then perhaps it may be time for another hobby...

james n posted:

An interesting if slightly concerning thread.

I can understand if you've got a rack full of audio and networking gear that moving things about may change things for the better as really these things are best separated but...

If you hear changes from moving networking kit about when it's well away from the Hi-Fi in another part of the house then perhaps it may be time for another hobby...

 

But....but....but.....what will I do on my day off! OK I could listen to more music and do less fiddling. For me however 'tinkering' is part of the fun and as long as you don't get too obsessive I think it is perfectly healthy. Yes, healthy, I am sure it is, really. It is rather cool however when a bit of fiddling produces a free & desirable uplift in SQ, even if it is partially 'placebo induced'.

You do however make a good point and I have already made the comment about life being too short. All I would say is when you are in the middle of 'tinkering' look at yourself in the mirror, look at the mess you have created while fiddling and ask yourself, 'is this sane behaviour or have I crossed the line?'

Fiddling is fine but never cross the line!

If you drill back down the thread James, it raised a question about the effects of UPS & NAS might have with a very near mounted LAN switch.  It might be like close stacking Naim boxes,  nothing is that bad other than maybe NAPSC,  its more hifi nerdish fiddle'itis.

well, i didnt revert to the original set up -- wanted to think about issues a little more before doing this. i find its not a good idea to rush to make changes, especially as the changes i made, as suggested by kind folks here, seemed to 'make sense' (though its never guarateed that changes that make sense actually sound good  -- but thats another subject).

what i did do though is to put the bog std ethernet cable between switch and NDS as first step towards possibly going back to 'known' place. as i reported yesterday, even after doing this, the system was sounding pretty bad on NDS -- not the subtle 'bad' but worrying bad. what i find fascinating is that, given that digital is 1s and 0s -- why one would experience such differences -- but we all know the reason now -- digital is not just digital!!!  its fundamentally analogue.

what did in addition was power cycle all comms equipment (router, modem, switch, music NAS, airport express, router and the the 2x555PS for the NDS -- oh, and the UnitiserveSSD.

Well, what do you know!!!

I am just playng my system now (on NDS input) and the mojo (as Graham Clarke says) is back in spades!!! In fact, it even sounds (a lot) better than before. I kid you not, it is almost frightening!!! Remember this is with the std ethernet cable NDS to switch -- the Meicord is not connected right now -- except between switch and NAS drive.

Its not time to make any conclusions yet. This may suggest that power cycling did 'something' -- but i have to say i dont believe it. Neither can we (yet) conclude that the std cable is better than the Meicord between NDS and switch. 

I need to re-trace my steps a little more and be sure of exactly what i did --as i was panicking a little yesterday (though seems the panick helped!! )

i have a fairly good idea what the issue that killed the music was -- but i want to connect the Meicord back between the NDS and switch and see/how that again. Yesterday, this was just as bad as the std cable -- which obviously pointed to that the poor sound was probably nothing to do with ethernet cables.

But the system sound bloody good right -- better than i have ever heard it in fact.  'Rasta stop no one' by The Stingers - was playing a second ago - oh my!! 

I will report more tomorrow -- at which time i may/should know what killed the system yesterday but i am in a good place now... thanks to all those who helped.

There is a brass band playing now -- and guess what, it sounds like brass !!!!

Sigh!!!

enjoy

ken

i have NEVER played my system at close to 12'Oclock volume !!! It didnt sound stressful at all and the SL2 drives didnt pop out -- and it sounded fantastic!! I am not sure about health to my ears though?(too old to care about that!! )

fortunately, my listening room/office is at the back of the house and there isnt a shared wall with neighbours. but it was LOUD!!! -- very exciting and absolutely sumptuous!

huh!!

enjoy

ken

There is a brass band playing now -- and guess what, it sounds like brass !!!!

Sigh!!!

enjoy

ken

 

That's what happens when you 'muck' about...!

G

GraemeH posted:

There is a brass band playing now -- and guess what, it sounds like brass !!!!

Sigh!!!

enjoy

ken

 

That's what happens when you 'muck' about...!

G

thanks GraemeH --- i'm in a good place right now and it feels very rewarding.

like, why bother with DR upgrade or additional SL cables - but we have heard these "famous last words" from a man who swore he would NEVER buy a 552!!!

enjoy

ken

Mike-B posted:    ......................   JohnG & anyone else who's interested 

My Netgear GS105 ProSafe is metal cased & its located on a wood shelf about 10cm directly above the UPS,  I'm not going to move it, but if time permits today I will try placing a sheet of steel (ferrous) under it & see if that does anything/nothing.  

my switch is a Netgear GS108. i have velcrosed it to the pipe covering wooden boxes in our conservatory as you can probably see from last set of photos i posted. i wanted to keep a further distance from the router but couldnt really because of the switch's  short'ish power lead. but i guess they are separated enough as is...

enjoy

ken

Ken,  I'm more concerned with the wires dangling around the wireless antenna's as it will affect the antenna transmit/receive performance.   I would add a clip & raise them a few more inches. 

Mike-B posted:

Ken,  I'm more concerned with the wires dangling around the wireless antenna's as it will affect the antenna transmit/receive performance.   I would add a clip & raise them a few more inches. 

could be easy enough to do in my case, i think. if i had known, i would have installed the router as far away from the switch as possible. 

but, whats worse, running audio ethernet close to power leads (mains and even the little power supply leads), or close to the wireless antennae?

"One day, you will learn, grasshopper... "

enjoy

ken

Ah Grasshopper, its like the root of a tree--it absorbs equally all that it touches  ......

Mike, my LAN stuff (router, switch, server) is physically apart from my Naim black boxes they but are plugged into a power strip which in turn is plugged into the wall socket next to the wall socket my Naim black box power strip is plugged into.

I know this is not ideal and was planning to re-route the LAN gear power strip to plug into another wall socket in another room on another ring main (presumably) to (electrically) separate Naim and LAN gear as I know LAN stuff, particularly switches and SMPS wall warts can inject noise into the mains and thereby potentially transmitted to the streamer (NDS).

The problem for me that you have just raised (and I expected might be an issue) is that to achieve the re-routing of the LAN gear power strip, I would need to run the power strip's power lead parallel and next to the Ethernet cable that comes from my iMac to the router for a distance of about 4 m. I was planning to use a Supra LoRad power lead for the LAN gear power strip because of its shielded construction but am now no so sure it is a good idea, even though the PC Ethernet lead is possibly less of an issues as those running in and out of the switch and this cable (iMac to router) is a AQ Cinnamon which of course is also shielded. 

So it is the lesser of the two following evils:

Naim gear and LAN gear plugged into the same wall socket via separate power strips OR

PC to switch ethernet cable (shielded) running next to a power strip power lead which would also be shielded for 4m.

Now I know the obvious answer is to buy a Supra LoRad power lead and try both arrangements but I wondered if you had some intuitive advice as to which is the lesser of the two evils.

Really appreciate your advice as always.

If I may chip in (for what it's worth)...

Option 2.

Reason? LAN gear tends to use switch-mode power supplies, which may 'polute' your NAIMs.