Automatic gearboxes

I think autos have improved massively-and I'd consider one now where the old slushbox type had no appeal. If I was buying a daft sportscar again I'd still have a manual rather than auto with or without clicky paddles though.

To be fair flyoff electronic handbrakes and hill auto-hold not an auto-specific feature. My (manual) Volvo has one. Just have to remember that my wife's car does not when I swap over and wonder at the grinding noise when I try to drive off....

A good auto-box can make driving much less stressful, especially in start/stop traffic. I've always had them on my Mercedes and have found they encourage me to adopt a somewhat soporific driving style. Good for economy, the comfort of passengers and safety.  I've had a little nagging doubt that when I jump back into a car with a manual box I might struggle to apply smoothly the necessary clutch control etc but it must be like riding a bike: you never forget. I needed to drive my daughter's Yaris the other day and I had not the slightest problem. I even enjoyed moving through the gears with a pleasing slickness when matching the engine speed. I wouldn't go back to a manual box now though.  

Thanks to my (ex) wife not liking to drive a manual transmission car, I have had autos of two extremes - the sublime and the craptastic. The sublime was the switchable sports auto on our BMW 325 Touring - somehow it always knew what gear to be in, and had a kind of sixth sense - lovely.

The complete opposite was the auto box on my Golf VR6.  That car promised everything - great engine, dark metallic blue paint, black recaro leather interior.   But the auto box ruined it - completely.  It never knew what gear it should be in and performance always felt horribly blunted - it lacked the urge, eagerness and icisiveness of the BMW auto . Luckily high spec VR6s were in great demand around 1996 so a dealer did a fabulous trade-in deal on a gorgeous low mileage old-shape Saab 900 16S Turbo Aero and I drove away knowing I'd got much the better end of the deal.

Anyway, although the VR6 almost put me off autos forever, the auto in the BMW touring was so good I opted for a switchable sports auto on my BMW 320 coupe and that too was lovely.  So, if it's a BMW, chances are the auto box will be rather good...

Richard and Mike-B make goods points about not all auto boxes being good. My favourable experiences have been via Mercedes' 5 and 7 speed boxes. But I once had an A-class on loan with one of those 'continuous' auto-boxes which I didn't like at all. And we once bought an automatic Toyota Auris for my wife and that was horrible - all revs, no pace. The car was meant to have 110 bhp but it felt very much slower than our previous manual-box Corrolla which had less than 100 bhp.   

I have 6 speed sportmatic in my BMW 328 Sportwagon. Excellent transmission and a no brainer in Southern California traffic. However, the new BMW 8 speed is significantly better still. Best transmission overall that I have ever driven. Brilliant.

Clay Bingham posted:

..............  the new BMW 8 speed is significantly better still. Best transmission overall that I have ever driven. Brilliant.

............  thats the one I have ...... & I agree it is good very good & have yet to drive anything better.  It just does it all & its almost possible to forget it has a gearbox.   

No BMW for me - it's a humble Golf SV..... Hopefully the VW boxes have improved since 1996! It's fine when I'm pootling along and when I want to overtake, but it seems very slow pulling onto a roundabout, almost like it's considering what to do. It's only done 200 miles though, and the garage told me that it would perk up as it runs in. I'm sure I read somewhere that the 7 speed DSG is one of the best automatic boxes around.....

Manual gearboxes through and through. From my first Morris Minor, through HGVs (we used to have a haulage business) Land Rovers and Range Rovers and a few 123 Series Mercedes. I wouldn't touch an automatic gearbox with a barge pole...........................until...

....I bought a 124 Series E Class Estate and then an S Class. Absolutely brilliant. Smooth, predictable and none to bad with the fuel consumption. 26 years later, we still have the E Class Estate. We also have a manual C Class and its 6-speed gear box is as smooth as silk.

We also have an automatic CRV in Canada and its gearbox is just as smooth.

To sumarise, when buying the next car, it won't matter whether its manual or automatic. Even Mrs D doesn't have to think when she is driving as to whether its manual or automatic.

I've had autos only on my main cars ever since I first had one in 1988. I can drive manuals if necessary but I find them a real bore. Currently we have a BMW X3 with  the 8 speed box, a  3 series M with same, and a Mercedes SL500 with who knows? All work beautifully. The BMWs are better on fuel consumption than the manual versions.

I had the misfortune to drive a new Peugeot 3008 auto about 4 years ago. What a horrible experience that was. On a flat road, with a steady rate of acceleration needed, the bloody thing would give passengers the impression I was taking my right foot off the throttle pedal just before the gearbox changed up. I naturally assumed a fault, but no, "they all do that" was the reply. And they do. Citroens of that class too. 

So, many decades of auto box development, and those two companies throw it all in the skip and produce horrendous, frustrating, embarrassing f-wit-boxes. 

My C Class and 911 both have auto boxes out of necessity, the 911's PDK is a joy. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

No BMW for me - it's a humble Golf SV..... Hopefully the VW boxes have improved since 1996! It's fine when I'm pootling along and when I want to overtake, but it seems very slow pulling onto a roundabout, almost like it's considering what to do. It's only done 200 miles though, and the garage told me that it would perk up as it runs in. I'm sure I read somewhere that the 7 speed DSG is one of the best automatic boxes around.....

The 6 peed DSG works like a charm on my Golf TDI but I had to get used to it in the beginning.

HH, going back to the auto after the Up! might be worse! I have 6 manual transmission cars,  and my wife's new car is the first automatic we've ever owned. When I get into hers after weeks of driving the manuals, I keep smacking the brake pedal when I go to clutch it for the shift 

I've had/driven some dreadful autos, the worst being a BMW and the best also being a BMW.  Most boxes can be bidden to do what you want with a flex of the right ankle once you get used to them and mentally sync with them.  They will also adapt to your driving and become more predictable as they learn to predict you. I don't know if anybody sells a truly awful auto box in the UK market nowadays. Both our cars have auto parking brakes and I find it extremely useful. If I need auto creep for slow speed maneuvering I just disengage it.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think autos have improved massively-and I'd consider one now where the old slushbox type had no appeal. If I was buying a daft sportscar again I'd still have a manual rather than auto with or without clicky paddles though.

To be fair flyoff electronic handbrakes and hill auto-hold not an auto-specific feature. My (manual) Volvo has one. Just have to remember that my wife's car does not when I swap over and wonder at the grinding noise when I try to drive off....

Bruce,

Not criticising your choice (after all it *is* your choice) but I was surprised to discover that 85% of all 911s now come with PDK (dual clutch manual) and you can't even buy a manual gearbox Ferrari any more.

It's interesting how magazines like Evo write about how they prefer the interaction of manual gearboxes on sports cars however customers voting with their wallets in predominantly disagree.

I have PDK in my Porsche and the car's so darn quick that I think it would be very hard work with a manual box, you'd be forever changing gear.

Tony Lockhart posted:

I had the misfortune to drive a new Peugeot 3008 auto about 4 years ago. What a horrible experience that was. On a flat road, with a steady rate of acceleration needed, the bloody thing would give passengers the impression I was taking my right foot off the throttle pedal just before the gearbox changed up. I naturally assumed a fault, but no, "they all do that" was the reply. And they do. Citroens of that class too. 

 

So, many decades of auto box development, and those two companies throw it all in the skip and produce horrendous, frustrating, embarrassing f-wit-boxes. 

 

My C Class and 911 both have auto boxes out of necessity, the 911's PDK is a joy. 

Tony,

Although from the user's perspective the PDK gearbox acts identically to an automatic the technology is actually totally different. 

Auto boxes have a torque converter which may also optionally lock which reduces frictional losses.  PDK is two gearboxes split over two drive shafts, one with even gears the other with odd, along with a computer controlled clutch.  PDK (and other DCT type boxes) typically get better fuel economy than automatics as there's no energy loss through use of a torque converter that allows a degree of slip.

I know all that, but it can still change gears automatically........

Graham Clarke posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think autos have improved massively-and I'd consider one now where the old slushbox type had no appeal. If I was buying a daft sportscar again I'd still have a manual rather than auto with or without clicky paddles though.

To be fair flyoff electronic handbrakes and hill auto-hold not an auto-specific feature. My (manual) Volvo has one. Just have to remember that my wife's car does not when I swap over and wonder at the grinding noise when I try to drive off....

Bruce,

Not criticising your choice (after all it *is* your choice) but I was surprised to discover that 85% of all 911s now come with PDK (dual clutch manual) and you can't even buy a manual gearbox Ferrari any more.

It's interesting how magazines like Evo write about how they prefer the interaction of manual gearboxes on sports cars however customers voting with their wallets in predominantly disagree.

I have PDK in my Porsche and the car's so darn quick that I think it would be very hard work with a manual box, you'd be forever changing gear.

I guess I'd have to have an extended test drive to decide!

All hypothetical but the sportscars I have owned (MX-5, Elise, Caterham 7) have had great manual changes and that has been very much part of the fun. I've never driver a PDK/DSG type car.

Tony Lockhart posted:

I know all that, but it can still change gears automatically........

Think I covered that in my very first paragraph

If automatic gearboxes had always been the default: 

Hey, Clyde - technical boys have come up with a new gizmo. You change gear by hand. With a stick on the floor. And another pedal which you press when you change gear. No really, it's a winner, we'll make a killing. Clyde? Clyde?

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think autos have improved massively-and I'd consider one now where the old slushbox type had no appeal. If I was buying a daft sportscar again I'd still have a manual rather than auto with or without clicky paddles though.

To be fair flyoff electronic handbrakes and hill auto-hold not an auto-specific feature. My (manual) Volvo has one. Just have to remember that my wife's car does not when I swap over and wonder at the grinding noise when I try to drive off....

Bruce,

Not criticising your choice (after all it *is* your choice) but I was surprised to discover that 85% of all 911s now come with PDK (dual clutch manual) and you can't even buy a manual gearbox Ferrari any more.

It's interesting how magazines like Evo write about how they prefer the interaction of manual gearboxes on sports cars however customers voting with their wallets in predominantly disagree.

I have PDK in my Porsche and the car's so darn quick that I think it would be very hard work with a manual box, you'd be forever changing gear.

I guess I'd have to have an extended test drive to decide!

All hypothetical but the sportscars I have owned (MX-5, Elise, Caterham 7) have had great manual changes and that has been very much part of the fun. I've never driver a PDK/DSG type car.

All great cars known for their handling ability and driver involvement (I had a Caterham R400 for a few years) but we're not talking the same level of accelerative performance.  A car that can do 0-100 in 7 seconds is so darn quick I'd rather have both my hands on the steering wheel and not have to change gear 2-3 times in such a short time period.  Particularly when a missed gear could result in over revving the engine.

Having had numerous hire cars with auto boxes over the years I was firmly in the manual camp. But then when I wanted a test drive of my previous Audi all they had was a DSG. After 30 minutes of fun I placed an order and now I would be very reluctant to have a manual. My current car with it's sub 5 sec 0-100 would be too much of a handful sometimes with a manual. Maybe at a track with all of the electronics switched off it might be fun but not on a normal road. There are all of those crazy cyclists to contend with after all.

Marou posted:

If automatic gearboxes had always been the default: 

Hey, Clyde - technical boys have come up with a new gizmo. You change gear by hand. With a stick on the floor. And another pedal which you press when you change gear. No really, it's a winner, we'll make a killing. Clyde? Clyde?

... and it's got three pedals?  What use is that when I've only got two legs???

Bananahead posted:

Having had numerous hire cars with auto boxes over the years I was firmly in the manual camp. But then when I wanted a test drive of my previous Audi all they had was a DSG. After 30 minutes of fun I placed an order and now I would be very reluctant to have a manual. My current car with it's sub 5 sec 0-100 would be too much of a handful sometimes with a manual. Maybe at a track with all of the electronics switched off it might be fun but not on a normal road. There are all of those crazy cyclists to contend with after all.

We're mixing things up here.  I was talking 0-100mph (160kph) in 7s.  If you're sub 5 for 0-100mph then you drive a Bugatti Veyron and I'd like a ride in it please

I assume you mean 0-100kph (0-62mph) for which I'm talking 3.2s.

Graham Clarke posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think autos have improved massively-and I'd consider one now where the old slushbox type had no appeal. If I was buying a daft sportscar again I'd still have a manual rather than auto with or without clicky paddles though.

To be fair flyoff electronic handbrakes and hill auto-hold not an auto-specific feature. My (manual) Volvo has one. Just have to remember that my wife's car does not when I swap over and wonder at the grinding noise when I try to drive off....

Bruce,

Not criticising your choice (after all it *is* your choice) but I was surprised to discover that 85% of all 911s now come with PDK (dual clutch manual) and you can't even buy a manual gearbox Ferrari any more.

It's interesting how magazines like Evo write about how they prefer the interaction of manual gearboxes on sports cars however customers voting with their wallets in predominantly disagree.

I have PDK in my Porsche and the car's so darn quick that I think it would be very hard work with a manual box, you'd be forever changing gear.

I guess I'd have to have an extended test drive to decide!

All hypothetical but the sportscars I have owned (MX-5, Elise, Caterham 7) have had great manual changes and that has been very much part of the fun. I've never driver a PDK/DSG type car.

All great cars known for their handling ability and driver involvement (I had a Caterham R400 for a few years) but we're not talking the same level of accelerative performance.  A car that can do 0-100 in 7 seconds is so darn quick I'd rather have both my hands on the steering wheel and not have to change gear 2-3 times in such a short time period.  Particularly when a missed gear could result in over revving the engine.

My fun drive is now my Triumph Stag. It has the manual box with flick switch overdrive on 3rd and 4th which I guess is a bit like having part manual and part PDK. Works very nicely.

The Stag is never going to rev too fast for me to change gear. In fact it has such nice torque and flexibility it will burble along most of the time without stirring the box. Which is a good job as gear changes require a little finesse.