ND5XS + Nait XS2 upgrade path?

I'm afraid that the problem is your room, with such proportions, pretty much like a cube, it's

probably prone to bass modes, reflections etc. 

Try to i nvestigate in this direction before any other system upgrades.

Regards

Roberto

I'd stick with what you have for now and give it time for it and you to settle in. Say a few months. By then you'll either be happy with where you are (which is pretty good) or you'll know what it is you'd like to change. 

There's a lot to be said for getting used to a system, as well as taking the time to get it set up properly, adjust speaker positions, etc. But.....if you have the budget, a better source can only improve things. Sounds like you're already committed to this, but I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you still feel you're not getting what you want from your system with the ND5, that would be a good time to look at your room acoustics (square rooms are often difficult), speaker positioning, cabling, support, and network setup. Get all this right, and get used to your system, before you throw more money at the upgrade addiction. Good luck.

What do you consider loud?  A 70w amp with 85dB sensitivity stand mount speakers will probably sound stressed out if you try and play it at disco levels.

I find 9-10 o'clock on my XS2's volume control plenty loud with my 89dB speakers.

If you like blasting hard rock at concert levels you might be better off with larger more efficient speakers and/or a more powerful amp.

Then you might still have to deal with the room's imperfections.

Thanks for the replies! Yes I do think I'll stop investing until I get used to what I am going to get for now. (with the ND5).

Iconoclast: yes my loud level will be around 9-10 o'clock with my XS2. So if that's the case is it a bad sign?  Anyways fingers crossed my ND5 will arrive today hope it works out.

I'm just speculating and don't want to get you more confused...

The CXN got good reviews, I don't think it could be ''that'' bad but I would tend to think the ND5XS will mate better with the XS2.

The LS50s might be a bit forward sounding and maybe not the best match for the XS2.

I haven't heard the newer Cambridge amps but based on my experience with the 650a I would tend to think you took a step in the right direction with the XS2.

If you can try out some other models of speakers at home just to get a feel of what works and what doesn't.

I would definitely forget about going the power supply upgrade route for now, despite what your dealer might suggest. Once you're settled in with rest, and if you still have some disposable income left then maybe you can look into it.

On the other hand NAC5 speakers cables are a worthwhile investment. A power cable upgrade for the XS2 is NOT.

The room and speaker positioning play a big part as well. Bare floors and glass should be avoided. One thing you might want to try is placing your speakers diagonally across a corner instead of along a wall. Even if this is not practical long term it could tell you something about speaker/room interactions.

Iconoclast: thanks for the advice. I'll definitely stop investing and will try to place my speakers positioning according to your suggestion and see if it works out or tell me something regarding my room's  acoustic ability.

Speaking of floor materials, my room has large marble like tiles installed which I do think they act like glass. Bouncing sounds around making it sound so harsh. Is there anything I can do about it? ( something that looks neat and smart in terms of interior design? Maybe adding a carpet or 2 in my room will that help?

NAC 5 speakers cables do u mean the NAIM A5? I am using the A5 right now.

Thank you so much for the tips!

Roberto is correct to suggest looking at your room and speaker placement before anything. A square room or even worst one of a cube (ie height = wide = length) is not good acoustically so you need to be very careful in terms of speaker placement.

In my case, for 2 years, I did not have a satisfying sound and was finally able to get the speaker placed at what is the most optimum position in my living space recently. 

I would suggest googling cardas speaker placement as a starting point and you work from there. Essentially, you are looking to minimising room modes to achieve an overall flat (I mean flattes possible) in room response from your listening position.

Nic, I agree with Iconoclast. The ND5XS and XS should match wonderfully. If it still sounds harsh, the speakers or their placement may be the issue.

Another question, what are you listening to? Bad recordings or streaming stations that are very low resolution can be harsh no matter what your equipment is.

Nic Chan posted:

Iconoclast: thanks for the advice. I'll definitely stop investing and will try to place my speakers positioning according to your suggestion and see if it works out or tell me something regarding my room's  acoustic ability.

Speaking of floor materials, my room has large marble like tiles installed which I do think they act like glass. Bouncing sounds around making it sound so harsh. Is there anything I can do about it? ( something that looks neat and smart in terms of interior design? Maybe adding a carpet or 2 in my room will that help?

NAC 5 speakers cables do u mean the NAIM A5? I am using the A5 right now.

Thank you so much for the tips!

Yes Naim NACA5. Sorry I forgot the ''A'' 

Of course room treatments are the best solution but if, like me, you're listening room is also your living room they may not be aesthetically practical. Books, drapes, carpets and upholstered furniture are all things that can help. An empty room with hard surfaces will cause treble glare. Cheap drywall and floor boards will cause bass to resonate.

Hello, it sounds like you bought the Naim equipment strictly based on what you read or what your retailer told you. Is that correct? If that is the case, I would advise you to listen to the stereo equipment yourself, and to as many different brands as you can before making a purchase. Sometimes people get caught up in reviews of products and base their buying decisions on that and also by the looks of the equipment.

Just to state the obvious, make up your own mind and listen to what your own ears are telling you, after all you are the one that has to live with your decision, not some reviewer or retailer who may have other motives that may not be in your best interest.

Kef and naim are not very popular on this forum

naim sounds best with neutral and fast speakers. I switched to Dynaudio and no issues or complaints

Nic, I have the LS50's and love them in my set up...  You mentioned you have the NACA5 cable, great. 

Do you have the port bungs in or out ?  Are they on solid speaker stands ? At what height ? How far at the speakers from the wall ? Have you tried changing the speaker positioning ?

I have mine close to the wall, and it was advised to have the bungs in, they didn't sound as good so out they came and all was happy with the sound.  Mine are in a basement on concrete/carpet on heavy book shelves so no harsh surfaces - I would try and put a rug down to help in your situation. 

Two ideas: first is that new Naim equipment can take quite a while to burn in; in the case of the XS as much as a month or more.  Second I echo the idea of trying to soften the sound of the room via drapes and rugs.  I had a living room once with tile floors and a large set of glass doors to one side and I never could get it to sound right.  Even items like a large flat screen TV or glass topped tables can generate unwanted reflections and make high frequencies sound harsh, confused, and overly bright.

Eventually I think you will want to upgrade your speakers; the LS50s are good value for the money (I have a pair) but in my opinion are definitely the weak link in your audio chain.

+1 for doing some room treatments first, then sit back and give the system time to run in for a month before thinking about upgrades. Those Kef speakers can really sing sweetly if the room is OK, and your equipment is well capable of bringing the best out of them. They do need careful placement since so much of their bass reinforcement comes from those large rear ports.

I guess your room may be typical HK concrete walls along with the marble floors. Much like mine in Singapore, and these can really make any system sound harsh (as others said, especially if the shape is square).

I would take the following steps, one by one to see what improvements each one brings:

1) A large rug, best with a thick wool pile (at least 2-3cm and tightly woven) for decent absorption.
2) Two sound absorbers (e.g. Aural-Aid hybrid panel is one I have heard give good results but there are many options). Experiment with placement of these at:
- first reflection points (the side walls just where the sound would bounce between each speaker and your listening position - can google for placement diagrams if this is unclear)
- behind the speakers
- behind your listening position

See if any of these make a significant difference before spending further. If the absorbers seem to work then thirdly look at adding Bass corner traps/absorbers. The bass modes in a typical square room are important to even out as much as possible, since your listening position may actually be in a 'suckout' location where you hear a much reduced bass, possibly contributing to harsh sound.

Interested to hear how you get on, but do have patience, as you have equipment which can sound really good!

TALLAN: I do have that feeling too. I bought the LS50 because of the look.. Anyways I'll live with it for the meanwhile is there any speakers recommendations tho? I was looking at the neat acoustics speakers too heard they match pretty well with NAIM amps. But sadly I think floor stands are out of the question because of space... Any other good recommendations? Appreciate for the help thanks everyone here!

buying speaker because of their looks, isn't the way to happy listening with Naim

You must try Ovators, Neat, Kudos, PMC, Dynaudio with Naim

Yeah you are absolutely right novice mistake I made just because they look good and have great reviews!! Very wrong!   

I like the Ovators but don't think floorstands will work in my room! (Not enough space from back wall) so which models of Neat and Dynaudio bookshelf would u suggest?

If I were you, I would not bother with any speaker that has a bass port, and particularly those with a port in the back. That includes the small Neats and Dynaudios. One that in my view is well worth trying is the PMC twenty.21. They are small standmount speakers that should sit happily on your 24" stands, though the PMC dedicated stands are likely to be better. They have transmission line loaded bass, which exits at the front, so the speakers can go nice and close to the wall (6" or less) which would be ideal in your small room. I only suggest these as I've tried them and think they are excellent. You can also get small ATCs that are sealed, such as the SCM 7 and 9, and others too. ATC are known to work well with Naim.

The Nait and ND5 are both excellent components, capable of great sound. With your A5 cables and some decent speakers (the Kefs may be those speakers, though I have doubts about their suitability in your room) you will have a nice simple system. Once the Naim boxes have been installed, move your speakers around to get a sound you like, after putting some rugs on the floor. If you cannot get rid of any bass boom, try some new speakers. Bear in mind that speakers take a few weeks to run in, and that their sound will open up over that period.  To start with they will often feel tight and constrained. 

You certainly should not even consider getting any more Naim boxes for at least six months. They will give an improvement for sure, but won't fundamentally change the sound. If your speakers don't work in your room, the best power supply in the world can do nothing whatsoever to change that. 

I don't have any issues at all with speakers with bass ports at the back, HungryHalibut. I usually always agree with you, but not on this advice of yours.

I do highly recommend to try any of the Dynaudio excite range, X12, X14, X16 or even X18.

DC71 posted:

+1 for doing some room treatments first, then sit back and give the system time to run in for a month before thinking about upgrades.

See if any of these make a significant difference before spending further. If the absorbers seem to work then thirdly look at adding Bass corner traps/absorbers. The bass modes in a typical square room are important to even out as much as possible, since your listening position may actually be in a 'suckout' location where you hear a much reduced bass, possibly contributing to harsh sound.

+2. Room treatment is paramount to system optimization with proper racking nearly equivalent. Admittedly, I haven't come to this realization without first doing gear upgrades. Experimentation with room furnishings may have some benefits but is kind of a wing and a prayer approach. A little homework on reflection points and bass nodes will go a long way in determining how and where to beneficially apply room treatments. It needn't be expensive or involve a microphone and computer. I recently spent $50 on foam corner bass traps and 24 sq ft of foam panels. I figured it was a disposable venture in the overall cost of my system. The bass traps are impressively effective in reducing nodes and delineating the bottom end and they're staying where they're at. The lightweight foam panels can be readily taped on walls to help me identify the exact sizes and locations for permanent, more aesthetically pleasing panels. Best $50 I've ever spent on hi-fi, and when I'm done the foam panels are going in my laundry closet to help damp noise from the washer and dryer. The left-overs can be used for shipping s/h gear.

analogmusic posted:

I don't have any issues at all with speakers with bass ports at the back, HungryHalibut. I usually always agree with you, but not on this advice of yours.

I do highly recommend to try any of the Dynaudio excite range, X12, X14, X16 or even X18.

In the right room I'm sure they are fine, but in a little room such as the OP's they are unlikely to be successful. Speakers with rear ports need a good amount of space behind them, which is hard to achieve in a small space. The manufacturers will suggest bungs, but all that usually achieves is a congested sound - literally bunged up. I'm sure the Dynaudios are super, but they are still ported and will surely behave like any other speaker. That said, there may be special features to their ports that exempt them from my generalisation.  

Nic, you've got some good advice here about room treatment. There are good speakers out there of all designs and my hope is that you will find it a pleasure working out which ones are right for you in your room.

Don't be shy of rear ported speakers, though they may need more care with placement that's all.

C.