ND5XS + Nait XS2 upgrade path?

Behind my suggestion of avoiding rear ported speakers was, apart from the small room, the OP's point that no home demonstration is possible. That makes rear ported speakers far more risky than sealed or transmission line designs. I detest auditioning speakers and the idea of trying loads fills me with dread. 

Just checked, than heavens the XS2 has a headphones out.  Do you have headphones or can you borrow a friends headphones.  That will allow you to listen to the system without the spaekers and room in the equaltion.  Might help to clarify if the problem is the room or the speakers or both.

Expensive gear does mellow and improve with use. Give it a month or two from new.  Also, trying leaving the gear powered up.  After a few days you will notice a more refined sound.

The KEFs are a good speaker, i can't see them sounding bad.  Mind you, i had a bad run early on with my hifi renaissance.  I had a bedroom system using Mordaunt Short MS30s which were ear friendly but coloured.   I replaced them with B&W705s when i got my house but i had your problem - thin and edgy with any volume. I had nasty old speaker cables a bad power which did not help.  

Acoustically a square room is the worst for sound causing peaks and dips in the frequency response. Every 50Hz or so you'll find it too lean or boomy. If you can, look up acoustic panel websites and the like and you will find information. Putting some panel absorption (you can make them) or buy some and you will find the sound won't bounce around and be weird. I don't think we're allowed to put e-mail addresses here but they are easy to find. Your speakers are a good size for your room, and with a little work, or you buy ready made acoustic panels you will notice a difference. I pretty much guarantee it!

Christopher_M posted:

Don't be shy of rear ported speakers, though they may need more care with placement that's all.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Behind my suggestion of avoiding rear ported speakers was, apart from the small room, the OP's point that no home demonstration is possible. That makes rear ported speakers far more risky than sealed or transmission line designs. I detest auditioning speakers and the idea of trying loads fills me with dread. 

Rear ported, sealed, bottom-firing or whatever; bass notes need to be produced and each transmission mode  is a different means to the same end. If one was truly superior the others would probably have been phased out by now. Never tried loading with my rear ports but maybe I should?

Hungryhalibut posted:

If I were you, I would not bother with any speaker that has a bass port, and particularly those with a port in the back. That includes the small Neats and Dynaudios. One that in my view is well worth trying is the PMC twenty.21.
...
They have transmission line loaded bass, which exits at the front,
...

Err... You just contradicted yourself, PMCs are open transmission line, ergo they are ported!

Sorry, I should have specified reflex port. 

+1 for those suggesting acoustic room treatment.  With a a 3.5m x 3.5m room you're going to have a massive boom problem at 48.5Hz.  You may also have another problem, from the ceiling.  My room is 3.75m x 4.25m and the solution for me was:  Use bass traps to control the bass, and use a sub to get extended bass (as it can be positioned independently of the main speakers).  Without the sub, the system still sounds a bit unbalanced.  Having done the treatment and adjusted the position of (all three) speakers, the bass mid and HF are now all nicely in balance.

The Sonus faber  Venere range of speakers is similar to PMC way of venting, being front ported, and shaped like a transmission line, however I have used rear ported designed speakers like Neat, Kudos, B&W and Dynaudio that sound tremendous in small rooms with very little space needed to sound excellent. They may not sound at their absolute ideal according to the experts, but they can sound extremely good.

Okay the ND5XS arrived today and things got much better! I'm a happy man again. The whole system just got so musical and rhythmic!!! Ok room problem still exits but the ND5 made everything so much better! Treble harshness from the CXN were almost gone (it's still there but way better). I'm sure it will still improve over the next few months when the system burned in better.(Naim systems do need time to break in right!?)

But the enjoyment for simply listening to music is back. (Got kinda depress trying to figure out what is wrong and spending money on something that I'm unsure with for the past month is really tiring) Now it sounds good at least. It's good it's real good it's running home right after work and enjoy music kind of good!

I will let the system burn in and start playing with speaker placement this weekend. Maybe adding some rugs and carpets to start with. Acoustic treatment seems to be really complicated from what I read online (rocket science kind of complicated).  I'll need sometime to digest and work on adding bass trap kind of things to my room.

Last but not least... Ok I know someone from here will go against this but... When I was at my dealer today picking up my ND5 he showed me a second hand hi line. I wasn't interested in the first place but he let me do a A/B test with the CD5XS + NAITXS2 + LS50 which he claims it's the same product range with my system . Ok I do hear a big difference everything is much cleaner and SMOOTHER (Especially with the vocals, sound I hated from the original din to din cable were gone. Sound stage seems to be wider too. So my question is what do you guys think? Anyone have experience with the hi line? It's $3500 HKD (USD$450 or 310 pounds) my dealer was saying these cable I will never consider getting new ones as they cost double for brand new ones normally I would choose to save the money on hi-caps or something else rather than upgrading an interconnect. (I think he is right on predicting what I would prefer spending on.) So my question is i do hear difference kinda big difference too. Rare chance for finding a second hand one worth getting it? And he promised if I don't like it he will help me selling them and guarantee if I sell them in the future he will take it back from me for HKD$3000. Any advise on this? 

Thanks so much for all the help I'm getting here I appreciat it!

I'm pleased it's sounding so much better. Now you just need to let it all run in, and of course sort out the speaker positioning. Before even thinking about a hiline, have you got a decent stand for your Naim boxes? If not this is the first thing to do. Your dealer sounds a bit too pushy for my liking. The hiline is very good, and £310 is a good price, but I really think you should get used to what you have first. They need to hang from the equipment without touching the stand, the wall, the floor, or any other cables. Can you achieve this? If not, don't go there. And do ensure you gave a good stand.

I do have my LS50 on a pair of Dynaudio Stand 3X. I bought them because there weren't many white speaker stands out there and I want them to match with my white LS50. (Hope they are descent enough)

Oh the hi line needs that much care and attention to make it stay out of everything else? I think that's hard to achieve for me since I got my amps and streamer on the floor stacking up... So it's a no go?

Good grief. Get yourself a proper stand immediately! I'd suggest a Quadraspire Q4 Evo, ideally in bamboo. Getting the boxes on a proper stand is absolutely your number 1 priority. Have a look at the System Pics 2016 thread for more ideas. Getting a hiline with your boxes as they are would be barmy - your dealer should know this. For now, put the boxes side by side, never stacked. 

Thanks for such important info! I didn't expect it's that important. He even knew I had them on the floor... 

From what you are saying, he sounds more interested in extracting money from you, rather than ensuring you get the best possible sound from the expensive boxes you have just bought - though I may be doing him a disservice and he may simply be ignorant. You will find that your two boxes, carefully installed, have the potential to sound far better than you dreamed possible. 

For a small room where speakers need to be as close to a wall as possible a sealed box is a better solution.  They are harder to drive - will not go as loud - but for a small room that is a plus.   While reflections can be handled easily, too much bass ouput is much harder to accommodate.  The LS50 is the right idea for the room - small, bass light - but if the presentation doesn't suit there are plenty of other options there (Spendor, Harbeth, ATC).

Hungryhalibut: I have the exact same feeling now... Looks like he is trying his very best to get my money instead of giving me the right advise and care for my equipments...

But don't worry, you have us!

Thanks Hastings. But I think I'll give my LS50 some time and my Naims to break in before consider changing my speakers. But I'll definitely take your suggestions when I start auditioning future speakers for my room! Thanks!

Thanks again! NAIM is such a sexy brand! Love the way it enables us to upgrade our equipment and even such a helpful forum in place with so many others to help newbies! I'm loving it! 

This is the Quadraspire. You can get other more expensive racks, but this is good enough.

You wrote:

"a second hand hi line. I wasn't interested in the first place but he let me do a A/B test with the CD5XS + NAITXS2 + LS50 which he claims it's the same product range with my system . Ok I do hear a big difference everything is much cleaner and SMOOTHER (Especially with the vocals, sound I hated from the original din to din cable were gone. Sound stage seems to be wider too. So my question is what do you guys think? Anyone have experience with the hi line? It's $3500 HKD (USD$450 or 310 pounds) my dealer was saying these cable I will never consider getting new ones as they cost double for brand new ones"

Timeliness may be the issue here.  You say you heard a big difference, and that you don't want to pay the new-in-box price for the Hiline so I'd very seriously think about getting it while the getting is good.  There's plenty of time for a stand, cable dressing, new speakers, etc. but half off on a product that makes a "big difference" is something I'd regret passing by.

Anyone has experience with the hi line here? If it's half the price is it worth it to get?

Hey Nic, YOU have the experience, no one here can tell you what your ears heard or what that is worth to you... but from your description it seems like it was an improvement in the exact areas you wanted.

Nic Chan posted:

Anyone has experience with the hi line here? If it's half the price is it worth it to get?

I do not have experience with hi-line but my suggestion is to address the fundamental problem first, settle down with the sound before thinking of cables. 

It may be good to note that the differences you are hearing (yes, no doubt it is there) are heard in the showroom which has better acoustic than your home. Hearing it in your home may not reveal so much differences.