ND5XS + Nait XS2 upgrade path?

Ah ha! Maybe I should try to play around with the gain db and see if it helps.

Nic,

Before Naim introduced DSF/DFF playback to their streamers, I also converted SACD ISO files to FLAC using Foobar 2000. The figure I quoted earlier of 6dB is a ballpark figure and you would need to find the loudest signal value before applying any gain. You can do this using the dynamic range function in Foobar but I would still want to allow some headroom below 0dB to avoid any clipping.

Having said this, streaming the files in DFF format gives really good results so, if you have retained the original ISO files, I would suggest that you try out ISO2DSD which can convert the ISO into its individual DFF DSD files which you can tag using mp3tag.

Thanks for the info! I also heard that I can rip it into FLAC and have my NAS transcode the FLAC to WAV when it streams to my ND5. 

Btw I dont have an Ethernet connection near the ND5 and I don't want to run an Ethernet cable across my room, I'm using wifi connection now will that lower the sound quality? (I do have often dropouts with Tidal at the moment will that change if I use a cable instead?)

Theoretically an ethernet cable is better than wifi. I actually disconnected the wifi card in my streamer as some claim it ''pollutes'' the signal. That being said, even with my ''vintage'' router, I rarely, if ever, experienced dropouts with wifi with the possible exception of large (1080i/p) video files.

I have two white BJC 30' CAT6a running from my office PC to the living room (one for audio, one for video). Once tacked neatly along the wall I just forgot about them (along with potential dropouts, sound degradation and/or security issues).

For short runs you could always go for audiophile grade CAT7 cables. Your ears and wallet will tell you if they are worthwhile. 

Cat7... I did some research last night. I'm not convinced they will sound better. It's all about carrying data to the streamer. Anyone have experience with cat 7 cables? Do they sound better? It's a big doubt to me.

They're for the same people who buy Super Lumina cables. I don't have to question if they sound better or not as I simply can't afford them. One less thing to get obsessive about.

Nic Chan posted:

Cat7... I did some research last night. I'm not convinced they will sound better. It's all about carrying data to the streamer. Anyone have experience with cat 7 cables? Do they sound better? It's a big doubt to me.

Its really a question of do ethernet cables sound different,  then maybe the question if Cat7 sounds better than Cat6 or Cat5.      Anyhow, lets assume we do believe ethernet changes SQ  ............

I've recently changed from Cat7 to Cat6 - why ?? because I broke the RJ45 plug clips & needed something better designed.   I read about a brand of Cat6 that made a lot of sense to my electrical engineering mind (NB: electrical, not electronic)  plus it had a very good RJ45 design.  

The new cables  have a different sound in my system & as a cable sceptic I am surprised. Its more open than with my previous Cat-7, with a richer & more natural feel to the sound & a better sense of space, clarity & detail & a better defined sound stage. Its obvious to me because I'm so familiar with my own system sound, it is subtle & I doubt would be so audible to that many others.

The next question is does the screen (shield) of STP Cat7 have an effect over UTP cables.  Its possible for the screen to carry unwanted noise but is it detrimental,  it depends on a lot of things I guess.   e.g. how the network screen is grounded;  its supposed to have only one ground & that is better planet earth rather than power mains earth.

Next question is do we really need Cat7,  it is not an approved standard anyhow,  but if it was approved is it useful for audio streaming.  Cat-7 (Class F) is supposed to run to a bandwidth of 600 MHz; the cable might do this, but its very doubtful it will go to 600 MHz when the RJ/E-45 plug is installed.  This has been borne out with various tests that show a well known & expensive Cat7 only just making it to Cat6a at 500MHz before the NEXT & RL limits.  The same for some Cat6a's not even making it to Cat5. That said, audio streamers have 100Base-T(X) data standard & Cat5e is perfectly OK.    However a Cat7 or Cat6 working with audio streamers will have a very significant headroom (reserve) & will work perfectly.  

Most cables  'sound' different whether they be Cat 5e, 6 or 7..and some more so than others.. It's all to do with EM radiation from the cable and connector itself and how it conducts common mode noise. Texas Instruments have published useful engineering papers on this.

Absolutely zilch to do with data unless the cable is broken.

In ten years or so many of us will be using passive fibre instead of copper in the home... one variable will be gone... no doubt we will then move onto TCP parameters as this will be the next great set of variables exposed.

Simon

Iconoclast posted:

They're for the same people who buy Super Lumina cables. I don't have to question if they sound better or not as I simply can't afford them. One less thing to get obsessive about.

I've been using Audioquest Cinnamon Ethernet cables for ages, and they made a big difference over el cheapo wires. I must be a mug, because I use Super Lumina too. 

Mike-B posted:

Nic Chan posted:

Cat7... I did some research last night. I'm not convinced they will sound better. It's all about carrying data to the streamer. Anyone have experience with cat 7 cables? Do they sound better? It's a big doubt to me.

Its really a question of do ethernet cables sound different,  then maybe the question if Cat7 sounds better than Cat6 or Cat5.      Anyhow, lets assume we do believe ethernet changes SQ  ............

I've recently changed from Cat7 to Cat6 - why ?? because I broke the RJ45 plug clips & needed something better designed.   I read about a brand of Cat6 that made a lot of sense to my electrical engineering mind (NB: electrical, not electronic)  plus it had a very good RJ45 design.  

The new cables  have a different sound in my system & as a cable sceptic I am surprised. Its more open than with my previous Cat-7, with a richer & more natural feel to the sound & a better sense of space, clarity & detail & a better defined sound stage. Its obvious to me because I'm so familiar with my own system sound, it is subtle & I doubt would be so audible to that many others.

The next question is does the screen (shield) of STP Cat7 have an effect over UTP cables.  Its possible for the screen to carry unwanted noise but is it detrimental,  it depends on a lot of things I guess.   e.g. how the network screen is grounded;  its supposed to have only one ground & that is better planet earth rather than power mains earth.

Next question is do we really need Cat7,  it is not an approved standard anyhow,  but if it was approved is it useful for audio streaming.  Cat-7 (Class F) is supposed to run to a bandwidth of 600 MHz; the cable might do this, but its very doubtful it will go to 600 MHz when the RJ/E-45 plug is installed.  This has been borne out with various tests that show a well known & expensive Cat7 only just making it to Cat6a at 500MHz before the NEXT & RL limits.  The same for some Cat6a's not even making it to Cat5. That said, audio streamers have 100Base-T(X) data standard & Cat5e is perfectly OK.    However a Cat7 or Cat6 working with audio streamers will have a very significant headroom (reserve) & will work perfectly.  

Nothing against Audioquest or Super Lumina. If I could afford them I'd most likely give them a try.

But since I'm not wealthy and I have no knowledge in electrical engineering, or electronics for that matter, I just went with what appeared to be an affordable no BS design. Quality USA made CAT6a cable , good connectors, floating shield and an individual QC test certificate for each cable.

" I just went with what appeared to be an affordable no BS design. Quality USA made CAT6a cable , good connectors, floating shield and an individual QC test certificate for each cable."

My experience has been upgrading from generic CAT5 to a similar cable to the above made a definite sonic improvement; upgrading from that (CAT6) to Audioquest Cinnamon was a much less tangible difference.  So to me the quality CAT6a is the definite sweet spot in value for money.  That said I still have AQ Cinnamon on my NAS, US, and 272; belt & suspenders, I guess.

Iconoclast posted:   , I just went with what appeared to be an affordable no BS design. Quality USA made CAT6a cable , good connectors, floating shield and an individual QC test certificate for each cable.

 

............  dare I guess they are from Blue Jeans ??  their Cat6a is a special made for them by Belden & they fit the excellent Sentinel RJ-45.   

My new Cat-6 cables are Meicord,  they too supply the same Fluke/QC test cert. & the Meicord pass standard is >1dB reserve (headroom) above the TIA standard.   

You guessed right. 

My home went through major renovation last year and I did upgrade full house cable upgrade from cat 5 to AMP cat 6 cables. (Further proof) And now Cat7?!? And I believe it will only work if the full network done in the same cat 7 cables. I'm not convinced by changing a few cables from the small part of the network will improve the SQ. 

maybe I should demo one to proof it.

I think I'll give it a try later, at the moment I still have quite a bit of upgrades I can consider instead of trying something that's hard to proof. First week with my system I'm very happy with it. It's improving everyday and it's amazing! I didn't believe in the first place when I read about Naim systems will improve overtime before they settle in. But hearing is believing! It's getting better and better, everything got smoother bass got tighter and punchier. ( Just didn't expect it will be that dramatic.) Can't wait to hear how much more it will improve. I'm sold and glad that made the right choice by choosing NAIM.

In terms of improvements how much more time I need to get them to peak?

Nic Chan posted:

 

In terms of improvements how much more time I need to get them to peak?

Significant improvement for the first week or ten days, then incrementally for a month, with subtle (and in my experience irregular) improvement for perhaps 90 days after that.  Be sure to leave everything powered on 24/7. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

This is the Quadraspire. You can get other more expensive racks, but this is good enough.

Halibut: my fraimlite arrived today got it setup and kind of unbelievable that it did lift the SQ! Feeling happy about it!!! Sounds more dense and better timing to me. I'm trying to get the Hiline connect the way that your mentioned (not touching anything else) and it seems impossible to me lol.

Any advise on how to achieve that?

Also is it a problem to place my subwoofer next the the fraimlite rack?

Having trouble posting pictures, check link below

http://postimg.org/image/703g7z94f/

http://postimg.org/image/bi5r02p67/

Nic Chan posted:

I'm trying to get the Hiline connect the way that your mentioned (not touching anything else) and it seems impossible to me lol.

LOL -your stack is not tall enough for that. More boxes, more Fraim will do the trick. Think big. Otherwise, dental floss has been suggested here as a suitable means of cable suspension.

Dental floss? Isn't that ugly?

Clearly the issue here is that the rack is very low - I was assuming you'd be buying a base and three shelves. As has been suggested, you could suspend the hiline from the underneath of the shelf above, using dental floss or thin fishing line for example. The main thing is that the hiline needs to dangle. 

engjoo posted:

Dental floss? Isn't that ugly?

Depends on diet and how often you floss.

Nic Chan posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

This is the Quadraspire. You can get other more expensive racks, but this is good enough.

Halibut: my fraimlite arrived today got it setup and kind of unbelievable that it did lift the SQ! Feeling happy about it!!! Sounds more dense and better timing to me. I'm trying to get the Hiline connect the way that your mentioned (not touching anything else) and it seems impossible to me lol.

Any advise on how to achieve that?

Also is it a problem to place my subwoofer next the the fraimlite rack?

Having trouble posting pictures, check link below

http://postimg.org/image/703g7z94f/

http://postimg.org/image/bi5r02p67/

What sub are you using and how does it blend with the LS50?

I have a Cambridge Audio X201 it's a tiny 9" cube but don't judge with the size! It's really powerful. I think it sound great and punchy. There is crossover control at the back and I think they work fine with the LS50s.