NAC282 vs NAC252 - Which is Best? Only One Way to Find Out. Fight!

Just don't listen to a 52 or a 552.  Only then will you realise what is musically possible...

Nigel - excellent summary.  As a 282 user I have nonetheless found the differences just as you describe.   Am I going to change?  No I have long said that my current configuration notwithstanding speakers is where I'm going to stop but for those thinking of stepping up the 252 does offer something extra.  

Regards,

Lindsay

I followed the same journey as you in first upgrading the power supply to a Supercap and then the 282 to a 252. I'd agree with your observations and although initially it may feel like you have lost some of the vitality of the 282 wait until the 252 has had a few weeks in your system. It opens up even more as it warms up revealing details which were obscured by the 282. Vocals, in particular, gain a naturalness that is astonishing close to a real voice and bass becomes deeper and better defined.

The only problem is that you may feel the itch to consider the 'matching' 300 which is where I ended up next...clever folks at Naim to always have that next step although no doubt for most the statement is a 'step too far'.

Now if I could just upgrade my ears back to when I was 13 I would be able to hear all those high frequencies clearly again! Disadvantage is that I would be able to hear the cat 'scarer'..,

Nigelb, good summary.. And for what's it worth I recognize and echo many of your comments... You refer to the 252 musical control and composure.. Spot on .. To me this  is where 252 leaves the 282 far behind and gets closer to 552. Despite what many say.. And yes it might be down to the fact I have an unusually good 252DR.. I just don't hear a huge difference between the 252 and 552.  There is a difference yes.. But far less than the 282 to 252 to my way of enjoying music.

Simon

Foot tapper posted:

Just don't listen to a 52 or a 552.  Only then will you realise what is musically possible...

Indeed FT. When I was collecting the 252 for home dem, I had a quick listen to 552/300DR/Sopra 1 fed by a ndac at the dealers. Stunning!

Enjoyed your write-up, Nigel. I recognise many of the attributes you describe of the 282 and 252. I think it was Mr Dolan on here who described the 252 as 'debonair', which I thought captures its performance well as does your description of the 282 as puppy-like. It sounds to me as though you are approaching this choice in exactly the right way i.e. considered and with patience so as to let initial and potentially misleading impressions pass.  Whatever pre-amp you chose you should then be confident of what pleases you most. Do keep us posted.

Mike 

Just be careful you don't mistake grownupness, smoothness and debonnairness with dullness. I made the mistake of swapping from an 82 to a 252, and while it's ultimately more sophisticated, it was simply dull. After a few months I bought a used 552, which was a whole world away: both sophisticated and musically captivating. It's interesting to read Simon's take on the scale of differences: to me, if the 82 was 1, the 252 would be 2 and the 552 would be 10. If I were Nigel (I am, but not the OP Nigel) I'd keep the money in my pocket until I could afford the 552. It's just so much better. And it's shiny too. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Just be careful you don't mistake grownupness, smoothness and debonnairness with dullness. I made the mistake of swapping from an 82 to a 252, and while it's ultimately more sophisticated, it was simply dull. After a few months I bought a used 552, which was a whole world away: both sophisticated and musically captivating. It's interesting to read Simon's take on the scale of differences: to me, if the 82 was 1, the 252 would be 2 and the 552 would be 10. If I were Nigel (I am, but not the OP Nigel) I'd keep the money in my pocket until I could afford the 552. It's just so much better. And it's shiny too. 

Good advice HH, though a salutary reminder of what I must contemplate if I want to improve my 282. Gulp!

Mike - I'm pretty sure that I used "sexy' too  

I do have to admit though that my benefit of hindsight position is that I agree with HH and if acquiring a 552 is a possibility I would hold tight until I could afford it  - even though I still consider that the 252/SupercapDR is a wonderful preamp, especially in conjunction with a 300.

I've avoided listening to the 252 or 552 as they are out of reach for me at the moment but I did discuss this with my dealer and he's of the same opinion as HH. 252 may be more transparent or accurate but in his opinion not necessarily that much more musical or enjoyable than the 282. The 552 however gives so much more of everything. Which it should given the cost !

Well it must be how you hear things, to me the emotion, sheer musicality and vibrancy of the 252 makes the 282 sound like a like a slightly rude guest who has had a little too much to drink at a dinner party by comparison.. the two really are  so different... But yes my 252 DR was a very recent model... The 552DR brings me more insight but to my ears and brain not really more musical enjoyment... It really demonstrates the importance of auditioning...

However all of these preamps are very capable, and I suspect tuned differently for different tastes and differences on how we listen and enjoy music... and for me (and perhaps fortvuately) the 552DR  just doesn't bring much else in musical enjoyment over the 252DR (with various power amps )..but it does give me added insight...

if you really want a 552DR they can be found used at a significant discount..and if you are in the market for a new 252DR then a used 552DR is not that different... 

Yes, I was initially planning to hold out for a 552 and having a quick listen to one at the dealers when I picked up the 252 for demo, the thought again crept in that I should indeed wait for a 552.

The problem is that the 552 is so much more money that I could wait forever to afford one. But part exchanging a 2011 282 for a 2011 252 is rather painless financially. I just have to be sure the uplift in SQ is worth the difference (I am fairly sure it is but need to listen a bit more), and accept the fact a 252 is not a 552. Then just wait for my numbers to come up on the lottery.

Many years ago I was scratching my head on the exactly same problem: whether upgrade my 282 or not.

Extensive demos convinced me that 252 is a better preamp than 282 in all musical aspects.

But it wasn't big enough to make a financial leap at 50% cost increase and losses on trade-in.

Certainly not as big as moving from 202 to 282 which was one of the biggest excitement  in my life despite of the  double price of 282.

But when I auditioned 552 the step up was so huge compare to both 282/252 ballpark, that I took an immediate decision. In fact, I just bought a new 552 and moved 282 to my home theatre setup where it brings me a lot of joy on a daily basis until now. 

The main thing about 552 is that I was not feeling that I'm burning cash for " yet another" micro step in performance.

Looking back retrospectively I think 252 could be a better choice when I was upgrading 202, but once having 282 on board then moving to 252 could be not an obvious choice for everyone.

I think the 252 (and for entirely different reasons the 152) still offer the best value for money in the Naim preamp range. The 252 goes beyond HiFi and is bettered only at much much higher prices. So much effortless poise and transparency - and you already have the Supercap. It just gets better.

I agree that the step up from 200 to 282 is bigger than from 282 to 252 and that the 552 is off this scale IMHO. I can also see some thinking twice about the cost to buy a new 252 and losing an amount on a 282 if traded in plus the expense of getting a SupercapDR for the 252 if currently using a Hicap(DR) for a 282. But I already own a SupercapDR and have the chance to part-ex my 282 for a secondhand 252 of the same age. So the financial cost to me of moving from 282 to 252 is far less.

I have a few more days to assess if the modest outlay to seal the part exchange represent VFM in SQ terms. I have to say this in case my dealer is reading this and he thinks it is a done deal - still some haggling to be done! 

Cheers

nigelb posted:

I already own a SupercapDR and have the chance to part-ex my 282 for a secondhand 252 of the same age. So the financial cost to me of moving from 282 to 252 is far less.

A perfectly sound and sensible postion to take imho 

I went from a 202 to a 282/HICap DR to a 252/ SupercapDR fronting a new 300DR and it's not the least bit dull!

I agree with most of the criticisms of the 252, but there's one important caveat of which I was reminded recently when auditioning speakers at Audio-T in Reading: although the 282 is great with instrumental textures it is less capable with timbre than the 252 and this is particularly true of classical piano, especially forte and fortissimo, where - comparatively - the 282 simply loses the plot. 

Good write up NigelB. I went from an 82 to a 252 and never looked back. The 252 deals in grace and beauty or, as Harry aptly puts it "effortless poise and transparency".

Great write up and recognizable. The 252 at that time non DR was a big step up for me as compared to the 282. It was where a whole different level of musicality start.

And I would not share Simon's opinion. The 552 is again quite far away from the 552, even while it's difficult to comprehend as the 252 is already that good. For everybody who can afford it, it's the only logical choice as pre-amp. And I even for some time have heard it driving a 200.

When I had a 552 I thought it was the dog's bollocks, and it is of course. That was probably getting on for ten years ago now, though I've heard a few since and they are always very nice. The thing is, all these amps are amazingly good, and when you have them at home and are not making comparisons, they all enable you to just listen to the music and forget about Hifi stuff. These days I have 'just' a 272, which to me is absolutely marvellous and I'm completely happy with it. I know that a 552 would be better, but I can't afford it and don't want it. So to Nigel I'd say, if you like what the 252 does, and it only costs a few quid more, then go for it and forget about the 522. The 282, 252 and 552 are all super. As is the 272 of course!

Bert, absolutely, we do hear things differently.. i just found the extra '5%' the 552 did over the 252 for me not important musically.but in the world of hifi I respect that this difference might be night and day for some..... When I had the option for a used 552DR recently my motivation appeared more as a 'status' symbol rather than anything else such as SQ.. I put the brakes on .. as there lays the path to madness... But if I win the lottery I will buy a new 552 or more probably a Statement NAC just because I would be able to effortlessly...

Back to the comparison with NACs, I found the gap between 200 and 282 reduced when using HiCapDR as opposed non DR. I found the gap between the 282 and 252 increased when using the SuperCapDR compared to the non DR. I believe the DR powersupplies have largely transformed the NAC performances...especially for the 200 and 252 (and 552). All in my humble opinion of course....

It comes down to sound per pound. My personal experience tells me  552, 252 and 152 are invincible. at their respective price points. According  to my ears, some other amps in the Naim family are not. I haven't heard all the Naits or the 272 or the S1. So if you're fishing at 252 level new or used, what else is going to beat it at that price point?

Nothing?

Probably.

I value AMA's experience, found that 282 was exactly as he described, massive soundstage, imageing, PRAT, musicality. I often think about 252, but if it is only marginal improvement, and need to buy SCDR and also 252, then that is lots of money for not night and day improvement. I think AMA also once said the 282 and 252 could easily be an audiophile's final preamp.

As a combo, the 282HCDR/250DR is one hugely musical amplifier, I don't find myself wishing for anymore more now especially after 250 DR. (and that is after hearing 552/500 many many times now)

Anyway to each their own, if in isololation the 282 is a fantastic preamp, then for me at least (and my wallet), ignorance is bliss.

I would never pay full prices for preamps after 282 level anyway (I do understand this is not ideal for dealers), I bought mine used at 50 % off retail price and already had a HCDR.

for me the issue of a 252 is that a SCDR is needed, and then a 300DR.

I somehow think this amount of cash is better spend on a source, and then on a 552. Or maybe 552 then source.

the 252 appears to be too expensive to me, sitting between the accomplished 282 and the superb 552 

Also any issues with 282 being harsh are more source/speaker issues to me, since I moved to Chord Hugo and Dynaudio, my Naim setup sounds very sweet to me.

NigelB you also mention this " Indeed I very occasionally miss the vitality and sheer exuberance the 282 exhibits. It is just that the 282 is a bit like puppy, full of life but occasionally can get out of hand and needs to be controlled."

For me this is a positive feauture of the 282, as I love the drive and groove this preamp has, and it is all about the music rather than a smaller degree of being smoother for me at least, but thanks for the excellent write-up !

@analogmusic, why do you say a 252 needs a 300? The 250 was an original partner for 252 and 52 before it (along with 135s). I see the 300 more as a bridge equally comfortable with a 552 or a 252.

agree with everything else though.