which expensive hi- fi Rack ?

Frenchnaim posted:

Has anyone tried Audiophile Starbase? I have one of their isolation platform, it sounds excellent, and it's very well-made as well.

No I haven't, will have to do some research, I am still looking for a rack that works for hi- end boxes, but at the same time doesn't cost the earth, I'm still not convinced just how much difference a rack really makes to the sound?

wenger2015 posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

CariocaJeff posted:

I replaced my Fraim with the ESS, and am extremely pleased with it. Very expensive but worth it to get the best out of top end kit. use stillpoints through most of my system. Could not believe, or indeed understand the difference the stillpoint ultra 5s made under the HDX.

Finally somebody else uses stillpoints.  I thought I was the only one since every time I mention them they get dismissed as Snake Oil....  I have them under everything.

I have read a lot about stillpoints ....all good I might add, but I would be interested to hear  a description of how the music is enhanced from good people like yourselfs who actually have them and found they work.............thanks in anticipation 

All I can say is that stillpoints greatly increase the focus of the music.  The further up you go in the product line the greater the effect.  It really is amazing and perplexing at the same time.  I'm convinced my NDX/SN2 with stillpoints competes favorably with higher end systems.  They aren't cheap but they should last a lifetime and will be with me with any future system modifications.  Give them a try.

phosphocreatine posted:

Knipester posted:

Really nice rack; how does it sound ?

He rack performs brilliantly especially with the 10mm toughened glass shelves, they really sharpen up the sound.

I've just sunk a spirit bubble into the top for turn table levelling which works great and looks pretty cool too. If I could work out how to add a picture I would!

Knipester posted:

Very Clever idea.....I'm still interested in knowing just how much improvement it makes to the music, what's added....does it just change the sound or actually make it better? And if so, how would you describe the improvement, for me the jury is still out?

Late to the party but will just put my thoughts out there. I have a cd5xs and flatcap xs that I had sat in a new fraim rack. Sounded amazing, clean bass and just really open and on point. I swapped these two boxes for an lp12 turntable and phono stage just to try it out. The turntable came alive. The cd5xs went onto the target wall shelf where the lp12 used to sit. What's happened? It's died, the sound has just morphed into a mess. Muddled bass, closed in sound stage, no separation to the instruments at all. I know the fraim is expensive but to me it's worth the cost and more. It is more than a box upgrade to me. Naim fraim is epic in my view, transforms the music in a way i have not heard before. If you can afford the fraim rack it's a no brainier from me. 

I have just ordered another stack to get the brains and brawn split. Bonus is a fraim will last you a lifetime and any upgrade path you take. 

Bit late to the conversation but surprised that no one has mentioned Hutter racks. Agreed you have to like the look but I think mine are grand and I have a feeling somewhere at the back of my mind that they may have been naim reference until naim created their own racks? 

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

Wow, what a memorable experience, just how long ago was that?

Pawson6844 posted:

Late to the party but will just put my thoughts out there. I have a cd5xs and flatcap xs that I had sat in a new fraim rack. Sounded amazing, clean bass and just really open and on point. I swapped these two boxes for an lp12 turntable and phono stage just to try it out. The turntable came alive. The cd5xs went onto the target wall shelf where the lp12 used to sit. What's happened? It's died, the sound has just morphed into a mess. Muddled bass, closed in sound stage, no separation to the instruments at all. I know the fraim is expensive but to me it's worth the cost and more. It is more than a box upgrade to me. Naim fraim is epic in my view, transforms the music in a way i have not heard before. If you can afford the fraim rack it's a no brainier from me. 

I have just ordered another stack to get the brains and brawn split. Bonus is a fraim will last you a lifetime and any upgrade path you take. 

Thanks for the feedback, I'm still deciding which racks to short list, I think Naim is going to have to be top of the list......does your rack have the glass ect?

lutyens posted:

Bit late to the conversation but surprised that no one has mentioned Hutter racks. Agreed you have to like the look but I think mine are grand and I have a feeling somewhere at the back of my mind that they may have been naim reference until naim created their own racks? 

Hutter racks have not been on my radar bit will certainly do some research now, now you have mentioned the look I'm even more intrigued, thanks for the feedback.

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

Wow, what a memorable experience, just how long ago was that?

Well it was when there were only a handful of 500s made! About 2000 or 2001, when the 500 was the “first” black box! Two had to be called back from dealers to augment the one that was in the factory! Paul Darwin was the master of ceremonies! He who was chief moderator here before Adam Meredith, himself now long since retired in favour of Richard D-.

It was indeed a memorable event. not least because I was a guest, rather than principle auditor.

But I took some great music, which certainly challenged the system. The system worked a treat! 

I brought one very conroversial recording: 

Artur Schnabel, London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Doctor Malcolm Sargent in Beethoven’s Fourth Piano Concerto, recorded in 1933 in Abbey Road Number One Studio for HMV,

... in a “best possible” transfer to CD from the metal masters. To be honest the transfer makes the best of the worn out recording [the masters had been extensively used on a very popular release], and nobody else quite got how well the system made the ancient recording seem! I was allowed five minutes [the slow movement], before some Jazz was put on by the principle auditors! Paul Darwin and I had a good smile about it afterwards as he understood that the performance was far more important than a perfect recording! This very performance is one of those rare classics that has never been out of the catalogue for the whole period since. It is still a copy-book example of how Beethoven should go!

Best wishes from George

The extract: Listen from 17 minutes 25 seconds to hear what the active DBLs did so well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZl0p1NrLtk

Finite Elemente Pagode in Maple

it will have contrast with your black Naim gear

till today, this Finite Elemente  rack design still amaze me. they are hold by 4 points thru the sharp cone against the main frame

wenger2015 posted:

Pawson6844 posted:

Late to the party but will just put my thoughts out there. I have a cd5xs and flatcap xs that I had sat in a new fraim rack. Sounded amazing, clean bass and just really open and on point. I swapped these two boxes for an lp12 turntable and phono stage just to try it out. The turntable came alive. The cd5xs went onto the target wall shelf where the lp12 used to sit. What's happened? It's died, the sound has just morphed into a mess. Muddled bass, closed in sound stage, no separation to the instruments at all. I know the fraim is expensive but to me it's worth the cost and more. It is more than a box upgrade to me. Naim fraim is epic in my view, transforms the music in a way i have not heard before. If you can afford the fraim rack it's a no brainier from me. 

I have just ordered another stack to get the brains and brawn split. Bonus is a fraim will last you a lifetime and any upgrade path you take. 

Thanks for the feedback, I'm still deciding which racks to short list, I think Naim is going to have to be top of the list......does your rack have the glass ect?

Yes just full fraim as it comes in the box. I've never heard the fraim lite without the glass

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

Wow, what a memorable experience, just how long ago was that?

Well it was when there were only a handful of 500s made! About 2000 or 2001, when the 500 was the “first” black box! Two had to be called back from dealers to augment the one that was in the factory! Paul Darwin was the master of ceremonies! He who was chief moderator here before Adam Meredith, himself now long since retired in favour of Richard D-.

It was indeed a memorable event. not least because I was a guest, rather than principle auditor.

But I took some great music, which certainly challenged the system. The system worked a treat! 

I brought one very conroversial recording: 

Artur Schnabel, London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Doctor Malcolm Sargent in Beethoven’s Fourth Piano Concerto, recorded in 1933 in Abbey Road Number One Studio for HMV,

... in a “best possible” transfer to CD from the metal masters. To be honest the transfer makes the best of the worn out recording [the masters had been extensively used on a very popular release], and nobody else quite got how well the system made the ancient recording seem! I was allowed five minutes [the slow movement], before some Jazz was put on by the principle auditors! Paul Darwin and I had a good smile about it afterwards as he understood that the performance was far more important than a perfect recording! This very performance is one of those rare classics that has never been out of the catalogue for the whole period since. It is still a copy-book example of how Beethoven should go!

Best wishes from George

The extract: Listen from 17 minutes 25 seconds to hear what the active DBLs did so well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZl0p1NrLtk

Thanks for sharing, such a memorable experience, I assume the reluctance to play beethoven, was the concern if it would be to much of a challenge for the system, or was it the quality of the disc?

I assume this was before the time a good rack was even considered relevent? 

biko posted:

Finite Elemente Pagode in Maple

it will have contrast with your black Naim gear

till today, this Finite Elemente  rack design still amaze me. they are hold by 4 points thru the sharp cone against the main frame

Again will have to do some more research, is it made up of glass shelves  or wood?

 Thanks for the suggestion 

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

Wow, what a memorable experience, just how long ago was that?

Well it was when there were only a handful of 500s made! About 2000 or 2001, when the 500 was the “first” black box! Two had to be called back from dealers to augment the one that was in the factory! Paul Darwin was the master of ceremonies! He who was chief moderator here before Adam Meredith, himself now long since retired in favour of Richard D-.

It was indeed a memorable event. not least because I was a guest, rather than principle auditor.

But I took some great music, which certainly challenged the system. The system worked a treat! 

I brought one very conroversial recording: 

Artur Schnabel, London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Doctor Malcolm Sargent in Beethoven’s Fourth Piano Concerto, recorded in 1933 in Abbey Road Number One Studio for HMV,

... in a “best possible” transfer to CD from the metal masters. To be honest the transfer makes the best of the worn out recording [the masters had been extensively used on a very popular release], and nobody else quite got how well the system made the ancient recording seem! I was allowed five minutes [the slow movement], before some Jazz was put on by the principle auditors! Paul Darwin and I had a good smile about it afterwards as he understood that the performance was far more important than a perfect recording! This very performance is one of those rare classics that has never been out of the catalogue for the whole period since. It is still a copy-book example of how Beethoven should go!

Best wishes from George

The extract: Listen from 17 minutes 25 seconds to hear what the active DBLs did so well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZl0p1NrLtk

Thanks for sharing, such a memorable experience, I assume the reluctance to play beethoven, was the concern if it would be to much of a challenge for the system, or was it the quality of the disc?

I assume this was before the time a good rack was even considered relevent? 

At the time I had never considered a hifi rack or shelving. My components sat straight on the floor! 

Almost any Naim set would easily meet the challenge posed by any music from Beethoven! But my selection of staggeringly great music making in a truly Old Testament recording had the potential to unseat any replay, however expensive. That the active DBLs rode it beautifully and the electronics on Hutter did show that that the then state of art was as capable as it needed to be!

Best wishes from George

Pawson6844 posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Pawson6844 posted:

Late to the party but will just put my thoughts out there. I have a cd5xs and flatcap xs that I had sat in a new fraim rack. Sounded amazing, clean bass and just really open and on point. I swapped these two boxes for an lp12 turntable and phono stage just to try it out. The turntable came alive. The cd5xs went onto the target wall shelf where the lp12 used to sit. What's happened? It's died, the sound has just morphed into a mess. Muddled bass, closed in sound stage, no separation to the instruments at all. I know the fraim is expensive but to me it's worth the cost and more. It is more than a box upgrade to me. Naim fraim is epic in my view, transforms the music in a way i have not heard before. If you can afford the fraim rack it's a no brainier from me. 

I have just ordered another stack to get the brains and brawn split. Bonus is a fraim will last you a lifetime and any upgrade path you take. 

Thanks for the feedback, I'm still deciding which racks to short list, I think Naim is going to have to be top of the list......does your rack have the glass ect?

Yes just full fraim as it comes in the box. I've never heard the fraim lite without the glass

I think the fraim lite is the poor relation, even at its considerable cost.

But as you rightly say a Rack is really a once only purchase, so maybe go for the top of the range as you have done.

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

wenger2015 posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

Naim certainly used Hutter shelves in the old days. These were used at the factory when I was lucky enough to have an audition of their then top-line equipment.

CDS 2, 52 [with Supercap], SNAXO [with Supercap], and three 500s onto DBLs. And miles of NACA 5!!!

Halcyons days indeed! 

ATB from George

Wow, what a memorable experience, just how long ago was that?

Well it was when there were only a handful of 500s made! About 2000 or 2001, when the 500 was the “first” black box! Two had to be called back from dealers to augment the one that was in the factory! Paul Darwin was the master of ceremonies! He who was chief moderator here before Adam Meredith, himself now long since retired in favour of Richard D-.

It was indeed a memorable event. not least because I was a guest, rather than principle auditor.

But I took some great music, which certainly challenged the system. The system worked a treat! 

I brought one very conroversial recording: 

Artur Schnabel, London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Doctor Malcolm Sargent in Beethoven’s Fourth Piano Concerto, recorded in 1933 in Abbey Road Number One Studio for HMV,

... in a “best possible” transfer to CD from the metal masters. To be honest the transfer makes the best of the worn out recording [the masters had been extensively used on a very popular release], and nobody else quite got how well the system made the ancient recording seem! I was allowed five minutes [the slow movement], before some Jazz was put on by the principle auditors! Paul Darwin and I had a good smile about it afterwards as he understood that the performance was far more important than a perfect recording! This very performance is one of those rare classics that has never been out of the catalogue for the whole period since. It is still a copy-book example of how Beethoven should go!

Best wishes from George

The extract: Listen from 17 minutes 25 seconds to hear what the active DBLs did so well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZl0p1NrLtk

Thanks for sharing, such a memorable experience, I assume the reluctance to play beethoven, was the concern if it would be to much of a challenge for the system, or was it the quality of the disc?

I assume this was before the time a good rack was even considered relevent? 

At the time i had never considered a hifi rack or shelving. My components sat straight on the floor! 

I doubt that almost any Naim set would NOT be challenged too far by any music from Beethoven! But my selection of staggeringly great music making in a truly Old Testament recording had the potential to unseat any replay, however expensive. That the active DBLs rode it beautifully and the electronics on Hutter did show that that the then state of art was as capable as it needed to be!

Best wishes from George

Does make one wonder if the state of the art Racks, could possibly be a tad ' snake oil '..... or has everything just moved on into a totally different league?

I am a shelf agnostic.

My system - such as it is these days - sits on an Ikea Corras and an Ercol lamp table. The amplifiers on the Ercol.

Nothing clever or expensive.

Light and rigid is the aim.

Quite simple really.

Best wishes from George

I use Mana. Only available secondhand these days.

Dozey posted:

I use Mana. Only available secondhand these days.

Hi, can I ask, are the mana racks wood construction, or does it incorporates glass as well?

Mana took industrial chic almost to the limit, and its most ardent users took the Mana effect, whereby the sound improved by adding additional base levels, to similar extremes.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Mana took industrial chic almost to the limit, and its most ardent users took the Mana effect, whereby the sound improved by adding additional base levels, to similar extremes.

Good grief!  I bet that set-up was popular with domestic partners 

Isobariks are not the lightest speakers. And think of the dusting...