My first Naim system

Hi LANESRA, 

Tough decisions, but sounds like you've almost made your mind up....with ref to SWMBO I would suggest adding a Louis Vutton handbag to the mix....other makes are available....

Would possibly suggest listening to the focal sopras either 1 or 2, not keen on the neats or spenders myself, both sounded a little flat and soft to me... although of course it's all personal opinion , maybe worth considering the cdx2 and xpsdr as apposed to the x series, if money isn't an issue....

Lansera

Is this a new system? Because by the sound of it your dealer is pushing you into a really odd combination.

Two issue with the NAIM gear:

• NP5XS is not really a good power supply for N272. You really need XPS
• CD5XS is a mismatch again. A more suitable CD player would be CDX2

LINN gear:

If the LP12 has an EKOS it should really be sold together with a Urika and Radikal, so no need for NAIM's  SuperLine.

If you are new to NAIM it is best to start your system 'bare' without any power supplies and add them at a later stage.

I would recommend the following:

Stage 1:

• NAC N272 + NAP 250, no power supply at this stage
• CDX2.2, no power supply at this stage
• LINN LP12 with it's own Urika and Radikal
  
  

Stage 2:

• Add XPS to your NAC N272

Adam

For what it's worth, I definitely would not bother with the XP5xs: for the 272 you should go for an XPS DR. The 272/XPSDR and 250DR are just great. The UnitiServe is an expensive way of getting what a nas will give you for £400 rather than £2,400, but it's certainly convenient. I'm assuming here that you are not buying a CD player - is that right?

The Linn is a lot better than the Mantra, and if vinyl is important to you, the Lp12 and Ekos, with Superline, is a great deck. Consider however how you will handle any future tweaks: might a more plug and play deck such as the Rega RP10 be a better bet? That said, if you don't play records a lot, the Mantra may be all you need.

Now, the Linn, or Rega, and the 272/250 are seriously good, but the little Neats are pretty budget. I'd be looking at much better speakers, such as the Naim Ovator 400 or bigger Neats, such as the SX5i, if you like their sound. 

Hi, Wenger2015, You're not an Arsenal fan are you?

Unfortunately, money is an issue. My budget is limited to an absolute maximum of £20000, so the CDX2/XPS wasn't an option. With regards spending so much on the electronics, it allowed for a maximum budget for the speakers of £2500. but I've usually worked on spending as much money as possible on the source components, then amplification and finally the speakers. I had to ditch the CD player for a UnitiServe, which effectively reduced the outlay by approx. the cost of a Hi-Cap to get back below budget.

Also, living where I do, it's not really possible for me to visit multiple dealers to listen to the different speaker options. Also, it's not possible for me to bring my own equipment to the dealer. Both the Neats and the Spendors were a big improvement on my Quad 11L's and the Spendors especially are at the top limit of what I can afford. If I still had my old type sealed box Heybrook HB1's, I would have been happy to wait until I had more money for speakers and play the Naim system through them for the time being, but 10 years ago my wife said the HB1's had to go as the speakers and stands were ugly.

Finally, I feel quite fortunate that I can spend so much on a hi-fi system and I'm sure it will give me many years listening pleasure.

Decide if you want to go streaming or CD, no real need for both. As for the LP12 I would look at roughly Akurate level with the radikal PS added, or even Majik with Radikal. The Radikal is the best upgrade for any LP12 and most believe a Majik level deck with Radikal is better than Akurate level with lingo PS.

So, for my money it would be

272

250

XPS

LP12 with Radikal and whatever else you can afford (I went for the Kore as well)

I can't help with your speaker choices as I haven't heard any of those options, but I do have a 272/XPS/250DR system with both the UnitiServe and CD5xs (w/ HiCap DR), and I have to say that CDs played through the CD5xs have a richer, deeper, more involving sound quality than when streamed via the US or played through it, but the difference is a subtle one.  I could live happily with the US alone, especially if I was never exposed to the difference; upgrade power supplies help the US sonically and are available from 3rd party vendors for not a ton of money.

HungryHalibut,

With regards the power supply, my budget was too limited to be able to afford the XPS power supply. I'm buying the UnitiServe to effectively replace my CD player.

As for replacing my Mantra. I'm very happy with the sound quality of it. Both the power supply and the turntable have recently been serviced by the Sound Organisation and they reckon it's probably at least as good as a Majik LP12 (they were supposed to have used one of these in the demo instead of the, most likely, Klimax LP12). I listen to LP's more than any other music format, but I want to make the system more "wife friendly", hence the convenience of the UnitiServe and ability to play music through the Tidal app.

My wife doesn't like the fact that I'm spending approx £20000 (including racks) on a new hi-fi system (she wanted me to spend no more than £10000). So, she would go mad if I needed to spend even more to get better speakers! As for having speakers better than the ones I've listened to, it may be possible if I sacrificed the power supply for the N272, but isn't it better to have the XP5 XS to improve a source component (albeit by not as much as you'd recommend)?

This is getting complicated, and I desperately want to avoid the onset of upgrade-itis!

Hi LANESRA,

How did you guess about being an arsenal fan? ...lol

That said I have noted in the thread some excellent advice.....with reference to speakers I would also suggest focal Aria 926's , which would certainly be in budget...

By the way, I've never paid full price for any new boxes or speakers, I suggest you do some more haggling, you may be suprised at  the savings you might end up with ...might contribute towards the Luis vutton....?

Lansera

Power supplies are an upgrade option, not a must. My advice is to simply skip the power supplies at this stage.  You will show some good will towards your wife as well. Get an XPS at a later stage. That's what NAIM is all about - upgrades, step by step....

Agree with Adam, it's a win win situation...

I used to have a UnitiServe and it's great as a CD ripper and music server, but pretty rubbish as a CD player. Do you need CDs at all? If you do, you could pick up a used CD5xs and plug its digital output into the DAC of the 272. Then get a £400 nas for your streamed music. So that's £1,000 saved. You can then drive a hard bargain and easily amass £3,000 to £4,000 for the speakers. Don't forget that you can pick up used bargains - you could get some Ovator 400 for £2,000 for example. Do Sound Organisation have used or ex dem speakers? I certainly wouldn't want a £20k system with motive 2s on the end, even as a staunch advocate of source first. 

Adam,

Yes it is my first Naim system.

Although the CD5 XS was demo'd, I have decided to go for the UnitiServe for convenience. Unfortunately, the Hi-CAP for the CD5 XS took my proposed system over budget.

The XP5 XS power supply for the N272 was my suggestion as I thought ANY power supply would be an improvement on the internal power supply within the pre-amp. The XPS took the system over budget and I don't want to keep upgrading in future. I may scrap the XP5 XS to enable me to be able to afford better speakers than the ones demo'd.

The LP12 in that format was used as I was unable to bring my own turntable (newly serviced and "souped-up" Manticore Mantra/ Musician arm and MB6 power supply) with me to the demo and I need a phono pre-amp.

I will not be replacing my turntable as it sounds very good to my ears and I would have to downgrade the electronics to be able to afford the LP12. Also, the pre-amp will probably become my main source, with the UnitiServe used to enable me to play my CD collection.

Tallan,

I've decided to effectively use the UnitiServe as my CD player. I can't afford both.

Hi Wenger2015. You may have noticed I'm an Arsenal fan, too!

My haggling options are limited as it's going to cost the Sound Organisation a lot more than usual to install my new hi-fi as they have to get an "Isle of Man Steam Racket" ferry (which are usually a rip-off) to get to my house.

Lanesra posted:

Tallan,

I've decided to effectively use the UnitiServe as my CD player. I can't afford both.

I understand completely and you are not sacrificing much.  I'm not sure why Hungry Halibut says the US is "rubbish" as a CD player; sonically I haven't noticed much difference between playing ripped music from its hard disk or "live" using it as a CD player, but certainly the convenience is NOT there as a player.  In any event once you get your CD library built do invest in a backup USB disk for the UnitiServe, it's very cheap insurance.

I was wondering about the phono amp and see that you are planning to get the Superline. I do agree that you should stay with the Manticore if you are happy with it, but wonder whether a Superline is the best choice given there are some really very good stages at more modest prices - possibly a Stageline? I had a Superline with 282 briefly before getting the Urika on my LP 12, but on the whole I think people with Superlines are at the top or near the top of the Naim tree, with 552s and Supercaps to power the Superline. (This may be an unwarranted generalisation, but  perhaps people with Stagelines could comment on its suitability at this level.)

Otherwise I think it is very hard making major changes all in one go especially when you cannot hear the components at home beforehand. I agree therefore with those advising minimising your purchases in the first instance. I would certainly also enquire about ex-dem possibilities with Sound Org.

Good luck

Clive

HungryHalibut,

I intend to use the UnitiServe to (eventually) rip the CD's so I can then put them in my attic.

Driving a hard bargain to get better speakers is difficult as it's going to cost the Sound Organisation a lot more than usual to install my new hi-fi as they have to catch an "Isle of Man Steam Racket" ferry to get to my house. If I scrap the XP5 XS power supply, I will then be able to afford Naim Ovator S400 or Neat Momentum SX5i's.

CDB,

I'm trying to minimise "upgrade-itis" here! Hence the Superline/ HI-CAP.

I'm not sure the Stageline will be better than my Pro-Ject Phono Box SE as a good chunk of it's price is for it's SNAIC!

I do wish I could have taken my own deck to the Sound Organisation, but the easiest and cheapest form of travel from where I live is by 'plane.

I'm a huge fan of Arsene Wenger , who very rarely pays top dollar, despite much criticism..and still manages to entertain ..

Back to the hi-fi, most dealers make quite a margin, so there always room for negotiation, it's always worth asking the question..

Another option is to buy a pair of ex demo speakers .....most have just been run in.....my belief is not just source first...the speakers are equally important....and on the system your considering possibly even more so...

OK

Didn't realise you already had the TT. Here is my system less the TT

272: £3300

250DR: £3500

Rega Aria Phono Stage: £800

Sopra No2: £9500

Much less than your £20K budget. In fact you could just about squeeze in an XPS and be under £20k.  As for a discount, if I was spending £20k I would expect a deal even if they had to deliver it to the Outer Hebrides!

Ryder35....Is it black, white or orange on the sopra'2s? ...

My TT is a Dr. Feickert Woodpecker with a Kuzma 4-Point arm and an EMT 15 cart originally played thru a Auditorium 23 step-up transformer into a Shindo Monbrisson phono section, but a few months ago I swapped for a Stageline into (and powered by) the pre-amp section of a Nait XS2 and the improvement was dramatic.  I haven't heard the Superline/hiCap however, but I too would think the money could more productively be spent on speakers.  Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Wenger2015,

I must admit I got fed up with Wenger back in 2010 when, along with other results, I went to see Wigan v Arsenal and we managed to lose 3-2 from being 0-2 up with 10 minutes to go! He's gradually winning me over again, though. Trophies always help!

As for hi-fi. I think I need to return to the Sound Organisation to listen to Naim Ovator S400 and Neat Momentum SX5i's.

Two things:

1. As mentioned earlier, haggling is a bit more difficult for me due to the extra travel costs for my dealer.
2. I haven't bought hi-fi from a dealer for over 20 years (when there was a dealer on the Isle of Man that sold Arcam). My last system was purchased online 10 years ago, when my Arcam CD player's laser gave up the ghost and my wife said my speakers had to go! so, I'm not used to haggling.

To keep the system as "wife-friendly" as possible, the speaker's finish must match the wood the rack is constructed from. The Neats appeal for aesthetic as well as sound reasons, because I can get them in a veneer that matches the cheapest material for my proposed rack (natural oak). The only matching veneer for the S400's is cherry, which increases the cost of the rack by £800! There is the possibility that I could insist on cherry wood for the rack at no extra cost to myself if I purchased S400's. It could be tricky getting ex-demo speakers with matching veneer.

I have been looking on a well known online auction site for SL2's because I think they look (and probably sound) fabulous, but no-one wants to sell them!

Ask yourself, do you need  CD player / ripper? Why not keep the Cyrus and buy a NAS to rip your collection and steam to an NDX.

For speakers you need to get the lads to bring over several on that steam boat and listen to them IN YOUR OWN ROOM. Speakers don't sound good, speaker/room interaction is what gives the sound. Giving this so little consideration and money will be something you will regret at your leisure and will make you quite unhappy with what should be a once in a lifetime purchase.

To be perfectly frank you appear to be making a huge mess of spending £20,000 on Naim, perhaps your wife is right.

SJB

My advice is to talk more with The Sound Org around options, preferences and any issues or concerns.

I have been a customer for over 20 years and they won't let you go down a wrong track or pressurise you to buy. So just talk with them and if they are coming to The IoM i am sure they will bring various otions in the back of their van.

All the best,

Richard