My first Naim system

Lanesra,

I remember watching the Wigan Arsenal game, not a happy memory.

It's probably a good idea to re- visit the dealer, the Ovators S400 have good reviews, theirs also a small army of fans on the forum who like the SL'2s...maybe if your not in a hurry a pair will turn up.

Do the speakers have to be wood veneer....or is black an option?

Regarding the dealer...don't have to much sympathy...they need to be made to work for the 20k....

Ryder35,

1. You missed out the UnitiServe. That's a must as I need to be able to at least rip CD's to a higher standard than I can on my PC.
2. I like the idea of having all the equipment made by the same manufacturer, so it's appearance matches. Aesthetics are VERY important. Fortunately, my wife does like the appearance of Naim electronics.
3. I am very happy with my dealer. The Sound Organisation sold the Mantra to me 30 years ago and recently serviced it. Unfortunately, they don't stock Focal speakers and, anyway, I don't like how they look. I've already rejected Linn Akudoriks because I didn't like their appearance.
4. I agree that I need to do more haggling.

Lanesra posted:

 

As for replacing my Mantra. I'm very happy with the sound quality of it. Both the power supply and the turntable have recently been serviced by the Sound Organisation and they reckon it's probably at least as good as a Majik LP12

 

I think Sound Organisation are seriously under estimating the capabilities of the Mantra. If it’s fitted with an aerolam subchassis, mega bearing, upgraded motor and re-enforced plinth it’s as good as an LP 12. The Magician is on a par with an Ekos, and the MB6 is better than a Lingo 1.

Tallan,

I'm afraid I've never heard of your turntable. I'm definitely getting the N272 and NAP250. I need a separate power supply for the phono pre-amp as the NAP250 can't power any external electronics. The HI-CAP fits my proposed rack nicely, but feels a but like a sledgehammer cracking a nut if it's powering a Stageline (but I like the near £1900 cost saving!). If I go for the Stageline I may be able to get S600's!

All my CDs are ripped and stored on my Mac desktop. Even that thing is half the price of a unitiserve. 

As others have said you can save a fortune buying nearly new second hand or ex demo equipment. My Superuniti and S400's were both ex demo. 

Why don't you speak to another dealer and get another opinion?

Sloop John B,

Yes, I want to replace my Cyrus CD6 as it's "adequate". I don't use it very much anymore apart from for background music. The 272/250/Unitiserve are sacrosanct. For getting the system to fit in an alcove my smallish room, a bespoke rack such as Hi-fi Racks Podium Reference is required. Having a Stageline instead of a Superline is a possibility.

This forum has given me further options with regards speakers, power supplys and phono pre-amps. which has been very helpful. I told the sound Organisation that I was undecided about the speakers at the end of the demo.

Lanesra posted:

Ryder35,

1. You missed out the UnitiServe. That's a must as I need to be able to at least rip CD's to a higher standard than I can on my PC.
2. I like the idea of having all the equipment made by the same manufacturer, so it's appearance matches. Aesthetics are VERY important. Fortunately, my wife does like the appearance of Naim electronics.
3. I am very happy with my dealer. The Sound Organisation sold the Mantra to me 30 years ago and recently serviced it. Unfortunately, they don't stock Focal speakers and, anyway, I don't like how they look. I've already rejected Linn Akudoriks because I didn't like their appearance.
4. I agree that I need to do more haggling.

It's worth pointing out that a rip done on your laptop using DB Poweramp is exactly the same as one made on a UnitiServe. They both access databases to check the integrity of the rip, both search for cover art etc: the only practical difference is that DB Poweramp is far more flexible. I had a serve for two years but sold it when I discovered that files from the nas, using Minimserver, sounded better than those played on the serve. Spend the extra £2k for the convenience factor by all means, but don't think for a minute that the rips will be any better than if you were using your laptop. 

Returning to the power supply for the 272, you really shouldn't get the XP5. You could always get the basic 272/250DR, live with it for six months and then pick up an XPS if you felt the need - it could be used or exdem if that helps with the budget. 

I stil think a good rega is a better bet than the Linn: maybe SO could bring one over on approval and you could test it against the Mantra in your house. 

The IoM is a lovely place : we visited Peel once, many years ago. 

FangFossFlyer,

This forum has been very helpful and has given me concerns with regards to what equipment to buy.

I do intend to have further discussion as to what equipment to go with the N272/NAP250/Unitiserve.

Some good advise here, but it can get a little confusing. I had US-SSD that I have since sold, now looking at Melco, so options abound. I went NDS on one system now have settled on 272 with 250DR, Arai 926s, Super Lumina speaker cable and now Melco pending as that NAS/Minimserver replacement.

I ripped all my CDs with the US-SSD to external NAS as WAV files and once done I sold it a little time later (the UI with U-Serve App is excellent and very easy to use), I thought it performed pretty well as a CD player from CDs.

If keeping that holy trinity of 272/250DR/US for ripping with are you just left with speakers now, can the other PSU and tweaks be done later on? Is Super Lumina for your speakers on the cards at all.?

Lots of little options, I'm on my third NAIM system :-) Enjoying the journey is half the fun and haggling for discounts of course, enjoy and the end product will hopefully be your audio nirvana for you to enjoy for a long time coming.

Fatcat,

My Mantra doesn't have the plinth strengthening, and the subchassis on my deck is fibrelam, not aerolam. But it does have the Megabearing and motor upgrade, newly serviced MB6 power supply and Musician arm.

During the demo, I told Hamish that I'm not convinced the Linn Sondek/Ekos that was used was better than my Mantra. I agree. the Mantra's a fantastic deck.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Lanesra posted:

Ryder35,

1. You missed out the UnitiServe. That's a must as I need to be able to at least rip CD's to a higher standard than I can on my PC.
2. I like the idea of having all the equipment made by the same manufacturer, so it's appearance matches. Aesthetics are VERY important. Fortunately, my wife does like the appearance of Naim electronics.
3. I am very happy with my dealer. The Sound Organisation sold the Mantra to me 30 years ago and recently serviced it. Unfortunately, they don't stock Focal speakers and, anyway, I don't like how they look. I've already rejected Linn Akudoriks because I didn't like their appearance.
4. I agree that I need to do more haggling.

It's worth pointing out that a rip done on your laptop using DB Poweramp is exactly the same as one made on a UnitiServe. They both access databases to check the integrity of the rip, both search for cover art etc: the only practical difference is that DB Poweramp is far more flexible. I had a serve for two years but sold it when I discovered that files from the nas, using Minimserver, sounded better than those played on the serve. Spend the extra £2k for the convenience factor by all means, but don't think for a minute that the rips will be any better than if you were using your laptop. 

Returning to the power supply for the 272, you really shouldn't get the XP5. You could always get the basic 272/250DR, live with it for six months and then pick up an XPS if you felt the need - it could be used or exdem if that helps with the budget. 

I stil think a good rega is a better bet than the Linn: maybe SO could bring one over on approval and you could test it against the Mantra in your house. 

The IoM is a lovely place : we visited Peel once, many years ago. 

Thanks HH, saved me typing it! NAS for £200 will free up funds for speakers or PS

wenger2015 posted:

Ryder35....Is it black, white or orange on the sopra'2s? ...

Tempted by orange but chickened out and went for black!

Drewy,

Do you know how to rip CD's onto a Mac Mini? I can then use my TV as the monitor instead of getting a full sized iMac. This could then possibly be used instead of the Untiserve. My only Apple "computing" equipment is the iPad I bought to act as the remote control, so I'm not very familiar with their operation.

This forum has been very helpful about how best to spend my £20000.

Ryder35,  good choice, I went for black, they look stunning .

The only thing slight I would flag up with manual ripping apposed to the autopilot UnitiServe is the time needed to do all the manual work on those CDs (depending on the size of the CD collection of course), whether that is worth the extra cost for convenience I am not sure, and NAIM had a promotion on UnitiServe recently it was £1680 or something if bought with other NAIM kit that qualified to get that discount (about £1000 if I remember), not sure if that is still active?

If you do not mind using dBpoweramp or similar it will save quite a few quid, and a Synology with internal SSD running Minimserver will be excellent.

I think HH has covered this all well but also makes some good pointers, shaving those extra costs here and there it does add up overall to get something extra elsewhere in your build, like those SL speaker cables or the XPS-DR PSU for example, worth the research.

wenger2015 posted:

Ryder35,  good choice, I went for black, they look stunning .

Stop it now please.... :-) 

HungryHalibut,

Another cheaper option to the UnitiServe that I saw on another thread on this forum was to rip the CD's onto a Mac Mini. Which I'm seriously considering. I'm just not sure how it can be done.

After all the advice on this forum, I've pretty well decided to forgo the power supply for the N272 and get better speakers instead.

As mentioned earlier, my Mantra has been heavily upgraded and has been serviced recently. I don't really want to get rid of it. I like the fact that it's not a ubiquitous LP12 and I'm very happy with its sound quality. The Sound Organisation know very well how good it sounds as it was tested in their dem room after the main deck, but not the power supply, was serviced last year. That's probably why they did the demo yesterday with a near top of the line LP12.

If it was possible to take my Mantra with me it would have been used in the demo.

Yes, the Isle of Man is a lovely place to live, except for a lack of hi-fi dealers. But, unfortunately Peel now has a large housing estate tacked onto its outskirts.

DAN43,

I want to try and avoid getting on an upgrade bandwagon, partly because of the difficulty and cost of getting to a Naim dealer from where I live. That's why I've aimed pretty high with the N272/NAP250.

It's no longer a holy trinity: its just NAC-N272 (with no external PSU)/NAP250 with the following options:

1. Stageline/HI-CAP or Superline/Hi-CAP (the HI-CAP is required as much for practical reasons as I need at least a few items to be half-width to avoid an 8-high rack "tower" on suspended wooden floors). As you're aware, the NAP250 can't power other items.
2. UnitiServe or Mac Mini (this will work as I can use my TV as its monitor).
3. Speakers better than Spendor A6R's or Neat Motive SX2's. S400's or Neat Momentum SX5i.The speakers veneer must match the solid wood of the rack.

If I went for Stageline, top of line Mac Mini (£799), N272/NAP250, plus my rack, even without discounts, my speaker budget goes up to over £8000.

If you already have a computer, you don't need a Mac Mini to store CD rips, just a NAS for £300 or so. Just hook up a laptop or whatever for ripping, and you're sorted.

I haven't heard a 272 with an XP5, but I have listened to it bare, and with an XPS. The improvement the XPS brings is substantial, and I think for your overall budget it would be well worthwhile considering if you can find a way to fit it in. Yet another opinion, sorry!

 Sounds like you might need another visit to the dealers...? 

Hi Lanesra,

My wife and I had a nice vacation in Douglas (and surroundings) a few years back. The missus got a triskelion tattoo in honor of our dearly departed three-legged Manx cat. He was a good boy.

You've posted a fun thread and thought experiment. Having £20K to spend on a nice system is a good problem to have. I hope you're having fun exploring the possibilities!

I'd like to suggest a different course that what's been offered so far.

How about spending:

*£8300 on an NDX, Supernait 2, Hicap DR, Synology NAS, a Stageline for your turntable, and

*£3500 on speakers of your choice. 

This leaves a whopping £8200 left in the budget.

What to do?

Well, I note that 1) vinyl is your main source, and 2) you like your Manticore turntable.

But, what's better than one turntable? Two turntables! So add an LP12, Radikal, Kore, second-hand (or, if you prefer, "vintage") Naim Aro tonearm, Dynavector XX2 cartridge, and Dynavector phono stage. This should come in right around £8200.

Boom!

Lanesra posted:

Tallan,

If I go for the Stageline I may be able to get S600's!

My thought exactly.  And worth a demo of the Stageline, at least, to see if it suits you.

"No future upgrades" may be a worthy goal but one of the big advantages to Naim kit is the ability to upgrade and update down the road as circumstances dictate or allow.  I can say that the XPS/DR is a major improvement with the 272, in just about every way: depth and control of bass, clarity, definition, soundstage.  I'd compare it to looking thru a dusty window and an open one.

As for ripping CDs via computer & NAS versus the UnitiServe, I tried the former myself with quite a few different software programs and found it to be inconvenient and time consuming enough to be not worth the effort.  With the US you pop in a CD and walk away... and the Naim iPad app is great as a controller.  I still have the NAS as well, and it's great for storing hi-res music bought online, photo and movie storage, backups, and is not, in the scheme of things, a very large investment.  A good 2 disk Synology NAS with 2 Western Digital Red 4 TB drives would give you 4 terabytes of fully redundant storage (and a great place to back up the UnitiServe) for about $500 - I'm not sure what that is in pounds.  That way you have the best of both worlds, and if after all your CDs are ripped you wish to you can sell the US on, as someone else has mentioned, recouping much of its cost.

I'm pleased to see that things are moving on: the Mac Mini - you don't need this. It's often used in a Mac and DAC system, but if using a 272 based streaming setup it's pointless. 

To Unitiserve or not? How many CDs do you have to rip? I ripped 2,000 with mine, and then sold it. If you have fewer CDs - say 500, then the slight extra inconvenience of dbpoweramp is bearable. 

I see you are keeping the Mantra - that's good. Phono stages? Bear in mind that the Superline is very sensitive and should not really be kept next to a Hicap or immediately above a power amp or power supply. 

With the Linn out of the equation, I'd suggest that you go for the XPSDR from day 1. You'll still have plenty of cash for new speakers. 

Whatever you do, my suggestion is not to get a US. 

I'd also avoid the Unitiserve. Once you've ripped your CDs it really serves (no pun intended) no purpose as you will be streaming using the N272. Also, if you were to rip your CDs using the Unitiserve and later decide to sell it, then unless you rip the files as Flac, you will have to retag all your files as the US stores the tags (the metadata for the files e.g. artist/album etc. data) in its own database which only it can read.

You are getting a lot of different advice here and I don't wish to add to the confusion so I'll only make 2 comments:

1. Don't bother with the Unitiserve

2. Get the speakers that the whole of your system deserves and will benefit from.

sjbabbey posted:

....... Also, if you were to rip your CDs using the Unitiserve and later decide to sell it, then unless you rip the files as Flac, you will have to retag all your files as the US stores the tags (the metadata for the files e.g. artist/album etc. data) in its own database which only it can read.

 

Not strictly true because if all files are ripped to WAV as standard, they can be encoded or changed over to FLAC at a later date, all done by the Unitiserve.

Or one can also choose to rip to FLAC and transcode to WAV on the fly. So this is a 'non issue'.

I have a Unitiserve and I like it 

Some like it, some really dont.

No question that the same process can be done for cheaper by different means, but I prefer the convenience of not having to turn my PC on every time I want to rip a CD, a few minutes later and all done with no manual intervention, any simple tagging changes done in seconds via nServe app. Its all pretty seamless with the Unitiserve.

All depends on how comfortable the OP is with the laptop or PC/DB Poweramp/NAS solution & how many CDs he may have to rip now and in the future.

A NAS does have to be purchased anyway at some stage for a Backup for the US though.

I guess this might provoke a flurry of comments...Id better go and hide behind the sofa now!