My first Naim system
Posted by: Lanesra on 31 January 2016
Just before Christmas I was fortunate enough to receive a sum of money from a legacy, which has finally enabled me to afford my first Naim system. Yesterday, my wife and I visited the Sound Organisation in York to listen to a demo of a pretty high up the food chain Linn/ Naim system: Linn LP12/Ekos, NAC-N272 pre-amp/ XP5 XS power supply, NAP250 power amp, SuperLine phono stage/ HI-CAP power supply and CD5 XS CD player/ HI-CAP power supply driving Spendor A6R's and Neat Motive SX2's.
This not surprisingly sounded fantastic. However, there are a few issues:
- I own a heavily upgraded Manticore Mantra/Musician arm/MB6 power supply, which I was unable to bring to the demo as I have to catch a 'plane to visit any hi-fi dealer. So, is it going to do justice to the proposed system?
- Even though I can afford the system and am keen to purchase it, my wife doesn't like the idea of me spending so much money on a hi-fi system. Is she right on this, as it's a massive upgrade on my current Cyrus CD6/ Cyrus 6 amp/ Quad 11L system? My logic is to get several upgrades done at once (i.e. top of the range phono pre-amp + buying power supplys straight away), thus saving me money in the long term.
- I preferred the Neats for their "fun" sound quality. The Spendors sounded more detailed in the mid-range and with vocals and the bass was deep but slightly soft, but they lacked the drive and tightness of the Neats. My wife, in the demo, said she preferred the Spendors. Subsequently, when we were enjoying a late lunch, I asked my wife whether she really preferred the sound of the Spendors and she admitted that she preferred the sound of the Neats but preferred the appearance of the Spendors. Typical woman! However, I did dismiss a proposed Linn active system of similar price on the basis that I didn't like the look of the speakers/ stands!
Apart from deciding to replace the CD player with a UnitiServe and wishing I had more time in the demo to listen more thoroughly to the speaker options, I have paid a deposit on this system. I'm going to use Hi-fi Racks Limited Podium Reference racks as I can have them made to bespoke widths. So I've gone for one full width rack and one half width rack to fit the hi-fi into a 1m width alcove.
Apparently it's the rack that's going to take the most time to be delivered. So I'll be waiting a while for the Sound Organisation to come to the Isle of Man for the installation.
I must admit, that's tempting.
Reasonable decision to keep your Manticore turntable as you 'only' have a few hundred LP's. The new Naim amp will let you enjoy it more. In time you can of course upgrade the cartridge to e.g. An Ortofon 2M Black, Nagaoka MP500, Linn Adikt, Audio IQ2 or IQ 3, or Dynavector 10 x 5. Another option is to do as I did and get Johnnie at Audio Origami to rewire your Musician arm. A longer term option would be take your arm with cartridge off the Mantra and use on another turntable e.g. the LP12. From memory, I think the Manticore MB6 power supply can be used to power an LP12. Then you'd have an Akurate level deck that would cost you less than buying a full LP12 Makik at £2700. Base LP12 costs £2000.
warwick posted:Reasonable decision to keep your Manticore turntable as you 'only' have a few hundred LP's. The new Naim amp will let you enjoy it more. In time you can of course upgrade the cartridge to e.g. An Ortofon 2M Black, Nagaoka MP500, Linn Adikt, Audio IQ2 or IQ 3, or Dynavector 10 x 5. Another option is to do as I did and get Johnnie at Audio Origami to rewire your Musician arm. A longer term option would be take your arm with cartridge off the Mantra and use on another turntable e.g. the LP12. From memory, I think the Manticore MB6 power supply can be used to power an LP12. Then you'd have an Akurate level deck that would cost you less than buying a full LP12 Makik at £2700. Base LP12 costs £2000.
Warwick,
Wise or not, I don't think I'll ever replace my Mantra as:
I'm very happy with how it sounds and during my last demo at the Sound Organisation it sounded superb through the Stageline/ Hi-Cap/ N272/ 250DR/ Neat Momentum SX5i system that I'm waiting to have installed at home. To my ears, it is definitely good enough to be the main source through that level of amp and speakers.
I like the fact that it's fairly rare.
Also, in the last 4 months, my Mantra and MB6 has undergone a service including leveling the suspension, fresh bearing oil, adjusting the drive pulley and a power supply re-cap,
My Mantra is currently at the Sound Organisation as they are trying to get rid of an annoying hum that was very noticeable during the demo when quiet musical passages are being played. This seems to be coming from the arm, so it may get re-wired anyway. It will, hopefully, be brought to my home when they come to install my new system.
Lanesra posted:My Mantra is currently at the Sound Organisation as they are trying to get rid of an annoying hum that was very noticeable during the demo when quiet musical passages are being played. This seems to be coming from the arm, so it may get re-wired anyway. It will, hopefully, be brought to my home when they come to install my new system.
You managed to get SO to agree to come to the Island to install? That's interesting, as I have assumed the typically £1000 premium Steam Packet charges for anything commercial, together with the time involved, would preclude home demo or installation. Or do you have to pay to cover the costs?
Innocent Bystander posted:You managed to get SO to agree to come to the Island to install? That's interesting, as I have assumed the typically £1000 premium Steam Packet charges for anything commercial, together with the time involved, would preclude home demo or installation. Or do you have to pay to cover the costs?
Innocent Bystander,
At the end of the day, they've agreed to sell me a superb Naim system. Surely part of the service is that the dealer installs the system in my home? I'm not contributing to the cost of the Sound Organisation getting here, but I did offer to let them stay at my house whilst they install my system.
They don't need to bring speakers as I brought them home with me after my demo two weeks ago. The Sound Organisation purchased Neat Momentum SX5i's in natural oak veneer especially for me to listen to and I liked them so much that I bought them there and then! This should mean that they can bring the amps, cables, my Manticore Mantra, racks and any tools in an estate car instead of their van. thus avoiding commercial ferry charges.
Another possibility is for them to fly to the Isle of Man from Liverpool or Manchester airport and have all the stuff couriered to my house.
Finally, Hamish will be coming over to carry out the installation. He's semi-retired and only works a couple of days a week. Therefore disruption to the shop will be minimal. Hamish mentioned the possibility of having a few days holiday on the Isle of Man as he hasn't been here before.
Further update:
The Sound Organisation reckon the hum is caused by a broken internal earth connection within the arm tube. The arm has been sent to a specialist arm service and repair agent in Scotland to be re-wired.
Further update: Sound Organisation has confirmed that my arm has been sent to Audio Origami for a re-wire.
Also, are Naim currently having production difficulties with the 250DR? As today i had to re-arrange the installation date from March 15th to April 5th due to my 250DR not being ready until 24th March. Due to my boss being on leave for at that time, 5th April is the earliest possible installation date.
I can't even use my UQ2 as I had to cancel the order for the NACA5 as the dealer I'd ordered it from only keeps the black version in stock. Apparently the black version sounds better than the white. Unfortunately, black NACA5 has very poor WAF!
My, my....
Not to despair - worth a wait. You will be in aural heaven once the whole thing is up and running.
Lanesra posted:Further update: Sound Organisation has confirmed that my arm has been sent to Audio Origami for a re-wire.
Also, are Naim currently having production difficulties with the 250DR? As today i had to re-arrange the installation date from March 15th to April 5th due to my 250DR not being ready until 24th March. Due to my boss being on leave for at that time, 5th April is the earliest possible installation date.
I can't even use my UQ2 as I had to cancel the order for the NACA5 as the dealer I'd ordered it from only keeps the black version in stock. Apparently the black version sounds better than the white. Unfortunately, black NACA5 has very poor WAF!
The 250dr will be worth the wait, the unfortunate thing is once it's installed, you then have to wait for 250Dr to start performing, mines just opened up after 75 hours continously playing , but when it does open up as Adam just said you will be in aural heaven.
Hope it all works out for you.
Adam Zielinski posted:My, my....
Not to despair - worth a wait. You will be in aural heaven once the whole thing is up and running.
wenger2015 posted:The 250dr will be worth the wait, the unfortunate thing is once it's installed, you then have to wait for 250Dr to start performing, mines just opened up after 75 hours continously playing , but when it does open up as Adam just said you will be in aural heaven.
Hope it all works out for you.
Adam/ Wenger2015,
I'm sure it will be worth the wait. It's just so frustrating that I've got to wait a further 3 weeks for installation day.
Lanesra posted:Adam Zielinski posted:My, my....
Not to despair - worth a wait. You will be in aural heaven once the whole thing is up and running.
wenger2015 posted:The 250dr will be worth the wait, the unfortunate thing is once it's installed, you then have to wait for 250Dr to start performing, mines just opened up after 75 hours continously playing , but when it does open up as Adam just said you will be in aural heaven.
Hope it all works out for you.
Adam/ Wenger2015,
I'm sure it will be worth the wait. It's just so frustrating that I've got to wait a further 3 weeks for installation day.
I unfortunately had the same experience, the date kept moving back,I ended up waiting around about 2/3 weeks more then originally promised, maybe their is quite a high demand at the moment, it is certainly a frustrating time for you, rest assured when it does arrive you will not be disappointed..
At last an update:
Hamish and Matt of the Sound Organisation arrived earlier this evening and have done a preliminary set-up of my new Naim system:
Manticore Mantra turntable/ MB6 power supply/ Musician arm/ Goldring GL1042 cartridge/ Stageline MM/ Hi-Cap DR/ NAC-N272 / NAP 250 DR/ QNAP HS-251+ NAS drive/ Cyrus CD6 CD player/ Neat Momentum SX5i speakers.
The record player/ NAS drive and all the Naim kit is powered up and works and sounded good from switch on. All the system "fettling" shall be done tomorrow.
But I'm delighted as it's been a long wait.
Yipeeeee! Party at Lanesra's ![]()
Lanesra,
Did the Mannanan's recent coming together with the Douglas harbour wall cause you any delay? I was due to sail on the Mannanan on the Thursday before Easter to visit family on the island but was lucky enough to get a place on the Ben My Chree out of Heysham.
Lanesra, at long last the set up is complete, pleased it's sounding good from the off, the good news is it will really start to sing once it's all bedded in, happy days ![]()
Well Lanesra I suppose something good had to happen to a Gooners fan sooner or later
( says he being a Villa fan
). Looking forward to some in depth reports especially as your new system has several features in common with mine such as the 272/250dr combo and you have the big brother version of my Neat Momentums. ENJOY
Adam Zielinski posted:Yipeeeee! Party at Lanesra's
LOL. I don't think my neighbors were too impressed with me last night when I started playing loud music at 10:30pm!
sjbabbey posted:Lanesra,
Did the Mannanan's recent coming together with the Douglas harbour wall cause you any delay? I was due to sail on the Mannanan on the Thursday before Easter to visit family on the island but was lucky enough to get a place on the Ben My Chree out of Heysham.
sjbabbey, No. They were booked on the Ben anyway. There was a manufacturing delay with the NAP250, though.
wenger2015 posted:Lanesra, at long last the set up is complete, pleased it's sounding good from the off, the good news is it will really start to sing once it's all bedded in, happy days
Wenger2015, as much as I love my UQ2, it really struggled to drive my Momentum SX5i's. So the NAP250 was always going to be an improvement even from cold!
Belfast Taxman posted:Well Lanesra I suppose something good had to happen to a Gooners fan sooner or later
( says he being a Villa fan
). Looking forward to some in depth reports especially as your new system has several features in common with mine such as the 272/250dr combo and you have the big brother version of my Neat Momentums. ENJOY
BT, I've lost interest in football for this season! I've never really done in-depth reports for sound, but I'll have a go: all the separate instruments are easy to follow regardless how complex the music is. Singers sound like they're performing in front of you. Drums have real weight to them and the bass is "tight" and goes deep. But as well as all this, the music sounds as a cohesive whole and is great fun to listen to, with excellent PRaT.
It would have been easier to just say "superb"!
It's good to hear that it's all come together nicely, and that it's working so well. Remember that it will improve considerably over the coming weeks. It's also good to see that there is room for an XPSDR in your new rack.![]()
Hungryhalibut posted:It's good to hear that it's all come together nicely, and that it's working so well. Remember that it will improve considerably over the coming weeks. It's also good to see that there is room for an XPSDR in your new rack.
Hungryhalibut,
Yes, I should have ordered the rack just 4-levels high to remove that temptation! Although I've got the NAS drive I still think my CD player sounds better (probably because I was multi-tasking when ripping CD's). It's a shame Naim don't do a half-width CD transport that can use a Hi-Cap as its power supply, as that will fill the "half-width" rack nicely.
Make sure you set your upnp server to transcode to WAV. It should sound considerably better.
Hungryhalibut posted:Make sure you set your upnp server to transcode to WAV. It should sound considerably better.
Done that. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good. But on drums especially it just den't have that "tightness" that the CD player has. I'll still probably use the NAS drive the majority of the time as it's so convenient.
Robert - it is possible for the NAS playback to reach the same quality level as a CD player.
I used my CDX2.2. as a reference and tweaked my network setup and NDX until they sounded almost the same (CDX2.2. and NDX both feeding the nDAC). Essentially what I was hearing then were differences in the digital transports of CDX2 and NDX. Whether you want to do that tweaking is altogether a different thing ![]()
Adam
The reported worse quality streaming is odd, as if anything streaming should be better, as it doesn't have the challenges of reading the disk. Tomtestbthe theory that it could be bad ripping due to multitasking computer, try picking one that has clear audible differences and re-rip using dB poweramp and allowind its accuracy check with online database, then compare. In fact it would be a useful exercise to do that to both wav and flac, and compare SQ without transcoding, as wav doesn't necessarily sound better and transcoding on the fly could itself cause a deterioration, depending on the processor etc.
Adam Zielinski posted:Robert - it is possible for the NAS playback to reach the same quality level as a CD player.
I used my CDX2.2. as a reference and tweaked my network setup and NDX until they sounded almost the same (CDX2.2. and NDX both feeding the nDAC). Essentially what I was hearing then were differences in the digital transports of CDX2 and NDX. Whether you want to do that tweaking is altogether a different thingAdam
Adam,
I think I'll leave well alone at least until everything has bedded in fully, as my system is very enjoyable to listen to anyway.
Innocent Bystander posted:The reported worse quality streaming is odd, as if anything streaming should be better, as it doesn't have the challenges of reading the disk. Tomtestbthe theory that it could be bad ripping due to multitasking computer, try picking one that has clear audible differences and re-rip using dB poweramp and allowind its accuracy check with online database, then compare. In fact it would be a useful exercise to do that to both wav and flac, and compare SQ without transcoding, as wav doesn't necessarily sound better and transcoding on the fly could itself cause a deterioration, depending on the processor etc.
There is a lot more to streaming playback than just ripping quality. There were several interesting threads of late on those subjects.
Certain points seem to have emerged:
- Power supply for the network gear . Conclusion > keep it separate from audio power supply
- Type of LAN cables (CAT 5 / 6 / 7), primarily the aspect of shielded and grounded LAN cables. Conclusion > must ensure network does not introduce multiple earth / grounding points into the network
- Signal, LAN and power supply cables. Conclusion > if possible keep them separated
- Quality of network connection components (sockets, plugs) and making sure cables are not damaged
I am sure my more knowledgeable colleagues like HH, Huge, Mike-B, Nigel, Ken-C and Simon will add the points I've missed.
Adam