NAP135's

Are they better than a 250 DR??

I think that 135s are bettered by a 300DR.  And I own 135s...

Foot tapper posted:

I think that 135s are bettered by a 300DR.  And I own 135s...

i was curious about this too. FT, have you actually compared 135 vs 300DR?

enjoy...

ken

Come-on guys................

A good pair of 135s will set you back say £2k.

A 300DR (because they are relatively new) will be list price, which I don't know off-hand but probably the wrong side of £6k ?

If the 300DR doesn't sound better than the 135s, then Naim got it horribly wrong.

Of course there are always people with abnormal tastes in hifi presentation who will prefer the135s and present their views very "clearly" but I suspect 95% of the buying population (ie the "normal" population) will prefer the 300DR over a pair of 135s.

Nothing wrong with being "abnormal" ............ especially on this forum

Don Atkinson posted:

A 300DR (because they are relatively new) will be list price, which I don't know off-hand but probably the wrong side of £6k ?

 

£7295

I am picking my 135`s up tomorrow and hopefully the last power amps i`ll be buying ever! I will let you know soon.

i would be happy to trade my 6 pack of mint 135s for 3 x 300DR. But less happy at forking over the 12k or so required to make it happen. 

I would need a lot of convincing that a 500DR was worth 18695 when a 300DR is 6995. If you think it is, then thats great. 

Its a lot of concert tickets. A huge number of CDs. The cost of a Sound Devices recorder and several sets of world class microphones, which will teach you far more about sound and recording and replay than a 500 will -- there is nothing quite like doing it for real yourself. 

Value is something that means different things to different people. <#insert all_part_of_lifes_rich_tapestry_etc_etc>

 Congratulations. Nice pair you have there. Enjoy them!

jon honeyball posted:

I would need a lot of convincing that a 500DR was worth 18695 when a 300DR is 6995. If you think it is, then thats great. 

Its a lot of concert tickets. A huge number of CDs. The cost of a Sound Devices recorder and several sets of world class microphones, which will teach you far more about sound and recording and replay than a 500 will -- there is nothing quite like doing it for real yourself. 

Value is something that means different things to different people. <#insert all_part_of_lifes_rich_tapestry_etc_etc>

Replay only has to be good enough! Jon, I agree with you. It is amazing to think that a full Statement set expenditure would allow me to be at the Vienna Philharmonic for weekly concerts for the rest of my life!

Sometimes there is a real need for a reality check.

Best wishes from George

So on a scale of 1 - 100 where 100 = "Real Live Performance" where does a six-pack 135 sit, a 300DR and where does a 500DR sit, all with regard to sound facsimilie ?

135x 6 = 50 ?

300Dr = 60 ?

500DR = 70 ?

Statement = 80 ?

300DR is much closer to Statement than that. 

And I would have 3 x 300DR active over a single 500DR passive *any  day*

And quite likely have 3x300DR active over a statement power amp passive too

jon honeyball posted:

And I would have 3 x 300DR active over a single 500DR passive *any  day*

And quite likely have 3x300DR active over a statement power amp passive too

I'm guessing that Graham C would go along with that assessment too, at least until....................

..........he hears a Statement in Salisbury on Wednesday !

Don Atkinson posted:

So on a scale of 1 - 100 where 100 = "Real Live Performance" where does a six-pack 135 sit, a 300DR and where does a 500DR sit, all with regard to sound facsimilie ?

135x 6 = 50 ?

300Dr = 60 ?

3 x 300DR = 65 ?

500DR = 70 ?

3 X 500DR = 75 ?

Statement = 80 ?

New options added into the original table.

I appreciate that Jon considers 300Dr = 60 v Statement = 80 ..............is too big a difference

More reinforcement for my view that I am not interested in anything beyond a 300... (Perhaps a DR, or a used one bought at a lower price with an upgrade to DR being considered at a later date)

Some initial impressions. Couldn't resist the temptation to fire them up and let rip immediately; then had a session yesterday after they had been powered for 24 hours.  Trying my best to avoid the usual hifi cliches (always a challenge to use words to describe music playback):  

I was expecting a great deal more grip and control over the bass, and that's what I've got - in spades - the Kudos Super 20's now seem to go somewhat deeper and, as is usually the case, there seems to be a little bit less bass (less 'boom' and overhang). The bass is now  much more agile and accurate. On a number of tracks yesterday I could hear the bass player doing things I hadn't heard before - even on Free's second album which I have owned since 1971 (currently second copy) and played I don't know how many times, I could hear Andy Fraser playing things that had previously been lost in a smear of low level detail.

I was also expecting some kind of general improvements elsewhere and what I got was another level of insight in to the way that songs were being sung and the way that multi-channel recordings had been put together and mixed; the diction on vocals also seems to have improved to some extent. A couple of albums I played showed noticeable improvements in that respect- for example the Tony Bennett / Bill Evans album (one of my favourites), and Janet Baker singing Elgar's Sea Pictures on the EMI coupling with Jacqueline DuPre.

In summary - the 135'a get another level of performance out of the S20's, which work a treat in my relatively small listening room.  The 135's are a significant step up from the 250 - but I'm still left with enormous affection and admiration for the 250; but in the secondhand market the 135's represent unbelievable value for money (typically around £1,800 per pair without service from a dealer).

 I'd love to do a direct comparison with a 552/300 combination but, and this is all a question of personal priorities, in a world where that is going to cost £15k-ish in the second hand market it's only of academic interest to me.  The maxed out Olive spec really does represent fantastic value for money.

Hi Bluedog

Excellent write up and I'm delighted that the 52/135 combination hits the spot for you, as it does for me.  It's obvious that they were intended to go together as a pair, as they just gel, beautifully.

Enjoy!

Best regards, FT

very nice write up, congratulations. 

I do agree with the value proposition of 1800 GBP compared to 7300/- GBP for the new 300 DR. 

I have nearly the same system as you Bluedog, with 82 135s into super20 in a small room. Can only agree with you, the bass indeed goes an octave deeper than with my old 180. The 135s have the Kudos in a vice like grip! Simply sublime, particularly after having serviced them. 

Regards

Matt

I have a pair of Olive 250,s driving active SL2.s with a SCap on the Snaxo. I have often considered going 2 -135,s passive.  Has anybody done this? Any thoughts?

Montone posted:

I have a pair of Olive 250,s driving active SL2.s with a SCap on the Snaxo. I have often considered going 2 -135,s passive.  Has anybody done this? Any thoughts?

You'd probably miss the dynamism of the active system, good as the 135s are passive and with easier set up and to live with.  IMO your 2x250 active system deserves the best LP12 you can afford, definitely keel, and perhaps with a Krystal, there's currently an attractive discount deal if purchased together, plus a trade-in allowance for an old troika ; )

Debs

Thanks Debs. That's got me thinking.

Debs. I have had my LP12 Ekos up-graded with Tangerine sub-chassis. My Trioka has recently been re-built. I love the Trioka but will consider the Krystal. T.

Montone posted:

Debs. I have had my LP12 Ekos up-graded with Tangerine sub-chassis. My Trioka has recently been re-built. I love the Trioka but will consider the Krystal. T.

If the Tangerine sub-chassis is anything like the success of their top-plate it will be a marvellous upgrade.

I'm always a bit cautious and skeptical of cart rebuilds, plus the Trioka is getting a bit long in the tooth now but if you're happy how it's performing it does make sense to get you moneys worth. Perhaps it's time for you to consider a Radikal/Urika? 

Sorry to woffle off topic, i guess what i'm saying is 2 x 250s active is a formidable and revealing amp that once gotten used to would probably be missed if replaced by a pair of passive 135s, however going to a 4 pack of 135s is so much the better if you can afford the costs, the extra shelves & space : D

A four-pack SBL system is what i aspired to get to for many years, but sadly remains the best system i never had. 

Debs