NDX beats LP12 - Prof Cox Says
Posted by: Mike-B on 10 February 2016
Semi interesting chat starting around 2:12:00
Just having a listen....
Yep. Sure enough. Prof Cox says to his ears the NDX sounds better than the LP12.
Not heard an LP12 myself. But the NDX sounds fantastic.
Nahh, as much as I like the NDX.. It's not in the same class room as the LP12.
Perhaps Prof Cox has been listening to too many big bangs.....
To his ears of course. It is a different sound.
One has to wonder what Prof. Cox plugged his LP12 into by way of phono stage & amplification...
It's my experience that the LP12 sounds nicer than the best streaming audio that I've heard (NDS).
Everyone's ears are different, eh?
There are so many variables at play here with regard to the Sondek (I think I heard him mention in the piece that it had an Audio Note cart on board), i.e. ancillary bits and bobs, how well (or not) it was set-up, the software used etc.. that it's quite possible it sounded worse against the NDX. Just taking one element - say, variability of the vinyl pressing or condition - could tip such a comparison one way or another.
However, I'm pleased his judgment was made purely by listening to each. I just hope he doesn't then see the result as applying in general - another day, a different sondek set-up, possibly a different result.
Maybe we will have Dr Cox's input on this here at some point...
I think Dr Cox and audio has come up in the past somewhere.
Nice to know I have a better front end than the good Dr. ( Naim DAC plus XPS2 with a doctorate ...DR to you) and I don't even have my own TV show..
Perhaps he doesn't like his music with that lovely warm vinyl colouration and has no nostalgia for albums taking up half his house and having to clean them in chemicals every time he wants to hear one 
He could start his own 'From the Listening Chair' programme...(geddit?)
G
I'm sure that a NDX sounds better than a LP12
Interesting, but there are so many confounding variables (cables, phono stage, power supplie(s) or lack thereof, cartridge... yada yada).
I loved my NDX bare, XPS brought more to the dance, using it as a transport into a Hugo TT even more (way way more). But at no stage has it ever competed with well mastered vinyl, even through a relatively modest Pro-ject / Ortofon Bronze.
Last night I was listening to Fleetwood Mac Rumours 45 RPM (RP10/Apheta 2). This particular vinyl slab has always bothered me. It's noisy (clicky / pop-y), a little forward sounding. I gave it a really good clean using my new RCM. Threw it on. Same result. So I thought to myself, I wonder if my 24-192 bests it through my NDX/TT. So I gave that a listen. The digital was quieter to be certain, but was lacking weight and body relative to the Vinyl.
Horses for courses I suppose, but I can't get behind the blanket statement that NDX beats LP12.
Zipperheadbanjo posted:
Horses for courses I suppose, but I can't get behind the blanket statement that NDX beats LP12.
I can................................................................now if the good Prof had a decent TT with which to conduct his evaluation............................
In Cox's "defence", he does state that it was an older Sondek, so there are no bets on the type of bearing, subchassis, power supply, arm or even AT cartridge.
Prof Cox is a clever fellow and I like his TV presentational style. There's a danger because of our apparent fascination with social meedja and 'celebs' of thinking that these people's opinions are more informed and/or valid than our own.
The digital versus vinyl debate is never going to lay down and die with a definitive preference.
As I've commented before, one day, some clever bastard (there ain't half been some) will work out what's actually going on with our individual perception and mental processing of music replay in the home, and spoil all the fun.
John.
Fascinating topic. Ive struggled recently myself to weigh the clear superiority of 'best case' vinyl (but often less than optimum in the real world if pressing, TT set up etc.isn't just so) versus the hitherto unprecedented repeatability and constant high quality of streamed rips via Unitiserve SSD and NDS.
For me personally, the empirical experience is that I find myself increasingly listening to streamed music. Sound quality is consistently excellent and the convenience and flexibility really helps offset any nagging urges to spin records.
i should declare that by the standards of a true Vinyl afficianado I have not optimised Vinyl quality (most notably by not adding an external phono stage) but the way it's pointing currently, further investment in analogue simply feels wrong for me. Fully prepared to admit that I've given up the good fight and something about that hurts after 35 years of vinyl listening but I'm simply enjoying forgetting about the process of setting music in motion and just listening to music via the NDS.
NDX VS LP12? . Doc Cox should listen to NDS!
I'm sure Prof (yes it's Prof not Doc) Cox would be very amused by this thread ........... but I think he had a pretty good idea what he was liable to start during the radio interview. 
Just don't forget his contribution to culture in the form of D:Ream :-)
PS. I believe technically he is both a Doctor as well as being a Professor. The former being a salutation bespoed on him due to his qualifications, the latter an honour due to his current employment.
I am glad he didn't compare the LP12 to ND5XS - THAT would be funny
On a serious note - it took many turntable demos at home to beat my NDX with nDAC. Sondek managed that - enjoying it now through my new Ovators s-400
The man can make black holes sound simple, I reckon, unless you can get Steven Hawking to contradict him, his view is clear proof that digital is better than vinyl, that you are all deluded and the argument is over. Did I have a strange alcohol induced dream or do I remember seeing that he used to post on this forum?
Eloise posted:PS. I believe technically he is both a Doctor as well as being a Professor. The former being a salutation bespoed on him due to his qualifications, the latter an honour due to his current employment.
A Doctorate is the highest level of academic qualification, to get there he would have first qualified as BSc and/or MSc & then PhD - the Doctorate
dayjay posted:Did I have a strange alcohol induced dream or do I remember seeing that he used to post on this forum?
Mike-B posted:Eloise posted:PS. I believe technically he is both a Doctor as well as being a Professor. The former being a salutation bespoed on him due to his qualifications, the latter an honour due to his current employment.
A Doctorate is the highest level of academic qualification, to get there he would have first qualified as BSc and/or MSc & then PhD - the Doctorate
A Professor is an accomplished & recognized academic honour (a salutation) on a person with published achievements in research, mentoring & teaching of undergraduate & graduate levels
Think that's what I said... Only you expressed it better.
He used to post on the forum as Dr BRI years ago.
Love his t.v stuff.Very educational.
when listening to digital, it depends on the quality of the rip if it came from CD.
a properly ripped file (from HDX, unitiserve, or exact audio copy - matched to accurate rip) can sound very fine indeed, as it is the same as the CD master.
A file that was not ripped properly, well then all bets are off, because one is no longer listening to the master recording anymore so no comparison can and should be made to the Vinyl.
it is not as simple as ripping from itunes, because eacd CD or DVD drive has an offset that has to be known and calibrated.
Exact audio copy, DBpoweramp and HDX do factor in the offset for each DVD/CD drive and compensate for it.