NAC-N 272 / NAP250.2

I'm not quite sure why you would want a NAC N272 with nDAC? Perhaps a NAC 282 might be more logical. The NAP 250-2 has been replaced by the NAP 250DR. The 272/250DR combination is generally reckoned to be at a sweet spot.

i'll leave someone else to comment on interconnects.

best

David

Like David, I'm wondering why you'd want a 272 and nDAC. The 272 makes total sense if you want a streamer and preamp in one box, but not if you are feeding something into a DAC. Perhaps you could provide some further detail of what you have now and are trying to achieve?

Regarding leads, the 272 comes with a standard Naim din to XLR. A reasonable priced better alternative (£120) is made by Witch Hat - the Hatpin 4X. 

The standard DIN to XLR IC is very good. The SuperLumina IC is... different... and will consume funds that could be put towards a 282.

The nDAC is a substantial step up from the DAC in the 272. I agree with David that a 282 would be a more logical step, unless of course, your primary goal is to reduce box count.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

The nDAC is a substantial step up from the DAC in the 272.

Is it?

Tyranniux posted:

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

The nDAC is a substantial step up from the DAC in the 272.

Is it?

I must say that I also thought "is it?". 

Only speculating here but most people think Naim DAC is superior to NDX's DAC. I dare to say that 272 is not on the same level as NDX, purely as a streamer and DAC. So as a DAC, 272 should clearly fall behind of Naim DAC's performance. 

I live interesting times since I will have NDX at home demo next wednesday (bare NDX against my bare Naim DAC). I'll report about my findings then. 

The nDac may of may not be better than that in the 272, but that's beside the point. Until the OP clarifies the whole system it's impossible to advise. 

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

The nDAC is a substantial step up from the DAC in the 272. I agree with David that a 282 would be a more logical step, unless of course, your primary goal is to reduce box count.

Indeed it is, but you would expect that. The NDAC has a similar architecture to the NDS and uses the same chipsets. However that doesn't take away the quality of the 272 DAC which I'm sure is matched to the resolution of its analogue output stage. The NDX DAC is inferior to the NDAC but certainly sounds enjoyable within the NDX's skin

Simon

I have one friend who use Super Lumina with that combination and another who use Chord Sarum. Both sounds great. 

//Jonas

Hi All,

Apologies for being vague in my original post, I currently have HDX-SSD / QNAP TS212-P, NAC152XS / Flatcap XS, nDAC / XP5XS & NAP155XS

I want to maintain the networked setup so a 282 does not fit in this case but to also make the leap in one go

I primarily want to upgrade but realise I can reduce box count my moving to a setup such as NAC272 / NAP250(DR)

This combo is realistic price wise for me and appears to have good synergy, I'm sure it will give me the improvements I seek

I realise I can perhaps retain the XP5XS for the 272, perhaps even upgrading the PS later

I also wondered if there was any merit in retaining the nDAC, hence my earlier question

I currently use a RA Kimber Select KS-1030 0.5m interconnect so this a likely starting point in terms of performance for connecting the 250 / 272, suggestions welcome :-)

I currently use RA Kimber Monocle-XL speaker cable but didn't want to change at this stage, I believe it won't necessarily hold the 250 / 272 combo back?

Further to my last post, how extensive is the 250.2 DR upgrade, what is changed?

Is enough changed to make it moot whether one has an old or new 250?

Looking at SH one finds exmaples from 2006 up to present day with pricing obviously reflecting the age

How much does age matter if I know I am going to upgrade to DR?

Should I just go straight to a 250DR (too early yet to see many SH exmaples tho!)?

I just wondered if I could pickup an aging 250, upgrade it and it still be cheaper than a new 250DR

It's a £995 upgrade if you want it done to a NAP 250 and a service is another £300 on top if done at the same time.  So this upgrade is quite extensive, including changing the output transistors to those used in the Statement power amplifier.  The general opinion of people on the forum is that the DR upgrade makes a big impact.  There is another thread in the forum running at the moment about people's experience of getting their 300 back after the upgrade. If you take a look at that, I think you will get an idea of the sort of improvement you might expect.  Indeed I have seen more than one posting over the last month or so which speculates that the NAP 250DR sounds better than the NAP 300 without DR.

best

David

If it were me, I'd get shot of everything apart from the QNAP, and go straight to a 272/250DR; you may find under this scenario that you could afford an XPSDR at the same time. You can use the lead that comes with the 250 - that's a minor issue. As to the Kimber speaker cables I'm not so sure - I'd use Naim's NacA5 or Tellurium Q Black.

Out of interest, where are you based, which will influence how easy it is to listen or trade in equipment. 

robgr posted:

I currently use RA Kimber Monocle-XL speaker cable but didn't want to change at this stage, I believe it won't necessarily hold the 250 / 272 combo back?

Thank you all for your comments and advice, some good food for thought

I do recognise the differing electrical properties but does this necessarily always translate in to poorer sound?

Surely there other factors such as cable geometry, conductor materials, dialectric materials, connectors etc?

However, I shoud perhaps obtain and compare a pair of NAC5 speaker cables

Given the clarification of my setup above if I do go for the 272/250DR combo is it worth keeping the nDAC?

It does rather complicate the setup (additonal box & 2 x cables) for what might be no or little value add?

If you kept the DAC, what would you use it for?

robgr posted:

T

Given the clarification of my setup above if I do go for the 272/250DR combo is it worth keeping the nDAC?

It does rather complicate the setup (additonal box & 2 x cables) for what might be no or little value add?

Quite - trade it in for the 272/250 combo.

Yes trade it in and if you are fretting to have another Naim box to replace it, buy an XPS.

best

David

After discussing the with others I now have a dilemma, what are the pros and cons of losing the HDX?

It has been suggested that using the HDX as a server sounds better than just pulling files from a NAS

How is this so, what is others experience in this regard?

If a server is the best way forward then are there other suitable alternatives for the 272/250DR combo?

I use Minimserver on a Synology and it sounds better than the UnitiServe I had previously. Harry had a similar experience moving from an HDX to a nas. 

Anyway, as your HDX is the SSD version, your music is already on the NAS.  All you need do is install upnp software on the nas, and then compare for yourself. 

If you do get shot of the HDX, ensure that you get it to convert all the albums to FLAC if they are currently in WAV. If you don't do this, the HDX rips will show as individual tracks and you will have a world of pain reassembling them into albums. 

Thank you HH, other threads have noted that after losing the HDX others suggested it appeared to 'get in the way' of the music

Good advice regarding the tagging, I've read some threads on this subject so will indeed ensure I complete this activity prior

It would be interesting for you to get the 272 on a home demo. Since you have a nas and the hdx, you would be able to compare the nas server, I seem to remember that there is at least one  upnp server on all the big banrdname nas used for audio. The ndac may be better but  is a lot of redundance if you want to go  for the 272. The advantage of the 272 is that it has a dac and a streamer in one box, but that the sq is not as good as the 282. On the other hand you will need a psu if you go for the 282 and a  250.

Personally I am hoping and expecting that there will be a 372 or 472 in the next year or so, but  if I am correct it will be at a  higher price.

   I think that the question of using the hdx, may come down to controlling it. With a 272 you have the option of using the spdif out and disabling the streamer in the 272, or using the hdx as a upnp server. Using the hdx with the spdif out should improve  sq marginally, but few if any on the forum has tried it our, or at least have not written about it. So many options for you to consider.

Claus

Hi HH, I have seen your guidance in another thread on how to covert to FLAC using the DTC but this appears to only work for HDX ripped CDs, which I guess makes sense

Although I started downloading hires music in FLAC a while back I still have much in WAV

What would you suggest is the best method to convert such WAV files?

If they are downloads, you can probably just leave them in WAV. It is only HDX WAV rips that give problems when played direct from a nas, so need to be converted to FLAC via the HDX. If you do want to convert the WAV downloads, dbpoweramp can do it. It has a batch converter programme as part of the package. I have the icon on my desktop but have never used it because I only download in FLAC. I'm sure there will be instructions on the dbpoweramp site. 

Many thanks, the HDX conversion is now underway