Is Melco the new Hugo...

And the difference here between say new SL cables and the Melco/ Hugo?

I don't quite understand where you are coming from with this thread. 

SJB

I haven't heard the Melco, but I thought the 272 was the new Hugo, on here at least, or perhaps the Naim dac with its new firmware.  If it sounds good who cares if it's new and fashionable, it will still sound good when the fuss has died down, and the Hugo is still viewed, on many places beyond this forum, as a superb dac, along with its little and large siblings - I very much doubt it can be bettered for the price even now.

the Melco is a transport, the hugo is a converter. So they are 2 different things.

I've been interested in pure digital data transports for a few weeks now, in an attempt to see if I can improve on my mac mini source. Compared to my CD transport, I find the mac mini somewhat lacking in soundstage, and very susceptible to the quality of the current fed. The only way to explain the fluctuations in SQ within the same day.

Between the few pure digital data transports I have shortlisted, I find the prices to be very high assuming they are just a specialized but very cut-down server.

P.S.
Naim make at least a dozen of components that can be used like the melco.

I stumbled across it last year at the Whittlebury show. Chord were using it to feed the Dave DAC and Kog (Melco's distributor) were there too.

I was intrigued as it seemed to be an interesting alternative to the Unitiserve. The fact that Alan Ainsley is involved also makes it interesting to Naimees. My trustee dealer has heard it but chose not to sell it because it uses Twonky.

keith

Lots of things can make a difference to the SQ, but whether objectively it is better or worse and whether objectively it is worth spending the money are different questions.  My own view is that we each have to make our own journey and while it is always helpful to get guidance from other travellers, each of our audio destinies may be different and why does that matter? Everything else about our lives is different.

best

David (in a more philosophical mood than usual)

Surely the Hugo is primarily a DAC where the Melco as I understand it needs to be plugged into a DAC, so not sure how the Melco could be a new Hugo. Perhaps I'm missing the point.

I think it's a product that some people have been wanting for a while, which is why it might have gained such interest. It's exactly what I'm after; optimised computer based storage & transport which is ready to go by adding a dac of your choice. 

Hugo still sounds delicious through SN2 for me. Like dayjay, I would be surprised if there is anything out there that can better it for the price. Picking a used one up for under £1k is an absolute steal. 

It's very good but don't take my word for it. It more or less makes the same difference as a great turntable where the dac/streamer acts like a tonearm/pick up. It's quite interesting how close the similaritys is from a proper NAS to a proper turntable etc. 

40 years ago it was an intensive discussion if and how a turntable would make a difference or not. Here we go again  

//Jonas

Got a used N1A online, it is feeding the 272/250DR. Been away with work so yet to fully give it full run but on first impressions it was very clean in the blacks.

Not sure if it is flavour of the month but for what I paid for it no complaints so far ingesting media and library management.

I guess I want something that takes the US idea along another step and happy to pay for the ease of use, but I do have Synology with Minimserver running also.

One significant difference from the Unitiserve is that Naim won't service the Melco,  which will be an issue when the drives fail.

Keith

These two devices are completely different. True they have captured the imagination of various audiophiles. However Rob Warr's Hugo genuinely moved the industry forward with innovation and application of new technology allowing advances in analogue reconstruction.

In contrast the Melco provides existing available transport technology in a relatively low noise platform (although appalled at the lack of internal screening and floating leads, so it's clearly not as low noise as it could / should be ).. It brings nothing technically new to the table, there appears no innovation. Also the details of why and how it does things in a special way seems largely absent from its manufacturer and the vacuum in my opinion appears filled by half truths and pseudo science from its advocates... Perhaps I'll be proved wrong at some point, but for me the the Melco has the aura of Snake Oil about it. 

Simon

Good point Keith but it doesn't look difficult and can't say i'm that worried. Take lid off, take out failed drive, put in new drive (the OS is embedded on the control board), select format internal drive from main menu and when done restore the music library from an external backup.

Same as any other computer really 

James

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

In contrast the Melco provides existing available transport technology in a relatively low noise platform (although appalled at the lack of internal screening and floating leads, so it's clearly not as low noise as it could / should be ).. It brings nothing technically new to the table, there appears no innovation. Also the details of why and how it does things in a special way seems largely absent from its manufacturer and the vacuum in my opinion appears filled by half truths and pseudo science from its advocates...

Simon

I'd agree somewhat Simon - lazy journalism doesn't help either. I suspect it's less of an advantage over a well setup network, optimised UPnP server combo but as a USB source it does the business and easily betters my old optimised Mac setup. I would think a Hugo with a Melco upfront would be rather interesting. 

KRM posted:

One significant difference from the Unitiserve is that Naim won't service the Melco,  which will be an issue when the drives fail.

One significant difference for Melco is that the drives may be reliable. You can probably buy three Melcos for the price of a US, so it becomes a relatively disposable option in comparison.

It took me a while on the Melco site to understand what I was looking at. In fact, what I find interesting is that Melco accurately avoids all the usual terminology for its product: server, streamer, digital player, media player etc. They call it Digital Library, and do every effort to differentiate it, by means of omissions, from the plethora of identical products on the market. From this standpoint, I understand Nigel's comparison with the Hugo. What I understand is the same thing I understand reading of this and all similar products: that much as they struggle to detour the client's attention from the fact that something with moving parts (a HD, or an optical drive) has to be used to store data into it, something with moving parts still must be used to feed data into it. Until musicians will not play into a mixer into a perfect, infallible, no-moving-parts storage system, or the music live streamed to the listener's appliance, we'll depend on fallible storage systems.

Ops, now that I think of it – once we had that: it was called Radio.

My original post was nothing to do with a direct comparison of Hugo and Melco - it was about fashion in Hifi, hence the reference to boot cut, carrot and skinny. It's just interesting how it happens in the world of consumer electronics. Just as with clothes one can follow fashion actively or passively, perhaps never being at the cutting edge but still solid and reliable. Why is it that the Melco is this year's Sweaty Betty leggings whereas the Hugo was last year's Top Shop crop top?

I think HH has a point:

When a new Naim product comes out, your trusted Naim dealer will probably have it. You can demo the nDac, 272, SL cable and decide if the VFM is OK or not. If not you return it and no harm is done.

If people here recommend products from other manufacturers then it's not likely that your dealer carries them too. My dealer has Melco, but no Chord. What are your options then? You either bug your dealer to buy one, you try to find another dealer with that device and who's able to demo it to you in a Naim environment, or you buy one from the Internet. In any case you'll have invested far too much to make an unbiased decision. That's what makes buzz around non Naim products a bit suspicious.

james n posted:

I'd agree somewhat Simon - lazy journalism doesn't help either. I suspect it's less of an advantage over a well setup network, optimised UPnP server combo but as a USB source it does the business and easily betters my old optimised Mac setup. I would think a Hugo with a Melco upfront would be rather interesting. 

James, no doubt. I suspect my underlying feeling is of disappointment. The Melco, and other devices equally apply, simply provide a in a well executed way a capability that I feel most if not all could apply with a bit of care and time with cheaper readily available products. However there appears a willingness of people in our hobby to throw money at chasing the dragon without really understanding what they are doing... I guess this is personal choice but gives audiophiles a bad name for many  in the professional recorded music industry.

id prefer it if real innovations were developed and applied, but when people are willing to buy mashups at premium prices, where is the point? It's far easier to knock up a mashup with a marketing budget than set about real innovation in our hobby.

if you follow the AES, there are significant and worthwhile  advancements and discoveries  in sound reproduction at the moment, but we don't see them in the hifi / audiophile world, we appear stuck in a rut.. instead we see products like the Melco... really disappointing.... perhaps the genuine innovation and advancement from the Hugo was a blip...  and normal service has been restored...

Does it make a difference to know that Melco (or Dela as they are branded in Japan) are made by Buffalo?

http://akihabaranews.com/2014/...o-devices-1036493665

Just wondering how much "off the shelf" these bits of kit are, isnt this basically a pc running (i assume) a custom os (linux based?)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

james n posted:

I'd agree somewhat Simon - lazy journalism doesn't help either. I suspect it's less of an advantage over a well setup network, optimised UPnP server combo but as a USB source it does the business and easily betters my old optimised Mac setup. I would think a Hugo with a Melco upfront would be rather interesting. 

James, no doubt. I suspect my underlying feeling is of disappointment. The Melco, and other devices equally apply, simply provide a in a well executed way a capability that I feel most if not all could apply with a bit of care and time with cheaper readily available products. However there appears a willingness of people in our hobby to throw money at chasing the dragon without really understanding what they are doing... I guess this is personal choice but gives audiophiles a bad name for many  in the professional recorded music industry.

id prefer it if real innovations were developed and applied, but when people are willing to buy mashups at premium prices, where is the point? It's far easier to knock up a mashup with a marketing budget than set about real innovation in our hobby.

if you follow the AES, there are significant and worthwhile  advancements and discoveries  in sound reproduction at the moment, but we don't see them in the hifi / audiophile world, we appear stuck in a rut.. instead we see products like the Melco... really disappointing.... perhaps the genuine innovation and advancement from the Hugo was a blip...  and normal service has been restored...

 

Hi Simon,

It doesn't happen that often, but now I disagree with you on the Melco topic. Yes maybe you are right that a combination of use of different technologies would help somebody to achieve the same result, but.... Not all in this hobby are so technical oriented and know how to get to the right combination of solutions to get to the same results. And I also reckon myself to that group. If you then subtract the cost of a normal NAS with a good powersupply and compare that with the Melco the gap is not that big anymore for the great decoupling and others you get. Nice side effect is that it also has the same look and feel as other audio devices.

So while you are in principal right that overall one could get the same benefit for less money, comfort, easy of use and so are also are important arguments.

My comments only count by the way for the hard disk based Melco as the other one is in my opinion price wise over the top for what it offers.

And for the other remarks in the post on fashion. Yes I think it's also partly a fashion topic and people will soon jump on the next gadget.

in the meanwhile I will keep enjoying what my ears are hearing, a considerable step up from my old setup.

robert_h posted:

Does it make a difference to know that Melco (or Dela as they are branded in Japan) are made by Buffalo?

http://akihabaranews.com/2014/...o-devices-1036493665

Just wondering how much "off the shelf" these bits of kit are, isnt this basically a pc running (i assume) a custom os (linux based?)

Yes ... but isn't it the case that the UnitiServe is pretty much off the shelf hardware (motherboard, drives, etc) running a custom OS (Windows Embedded?)

As for someone's cost comparison - isn't the UnitiServe £2400 vs Melo N1A (the HDD version) £1600 so hardly able to "buy three Melcos for the price of a US" and compared with a "standard" QNAP not "a relatively disposable option in comparison".

Having said that, if you compare it to (say) building a PC with a custom power supply, you can quickly get to the point of spending £1600 on parts that you have nothing more than common sense guess work sounds any better than a £300 box of parts and you have some support and guarantee to rely on should you have problems.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

............... Also the details of why and how it does things in a special way seems largely absent from its manufacturer and the vacuum in my opinion appears filled by half truths and pseudo science from its advocates... Perhaps I'll be proved wrong at some point, but for me the the Melco has the aura of Snake Oil about it. 

100% -  there are too many products around the audio world that go to market this way.  It may well be that some people don't want to know for various reasons,  but there are many who do want to know or at least have a passing interest.  Words of wondrous mystique painted with high gloss snake oil & attempts to justify it all with exorbitant prices ............  I might work in a high end restaurants,   but all it does with me is discount the product & I don't even give it a consideration

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude