Is Melco the new Hugo...

There have been a succession of threads in recent weeks in which people grapple with the vagaries of networking. Should I buy a better switch? Should I buy a special after market power supply for the switch? Which NAS should I buy? Which one sounds best and will work with my streamer? 

It seems to me to me that Melco have put a switch and a NAS in a box, optimised them for audio purposes and made the whole thing dead easy to use. 

Fair play to them.

Keith, Bert, indeed fair play as long as there is transparency ( I have seen no evidence that the networking equipment is optimised specifically for audio, and still looks inferior to what certain managed switches could do ).. If it works for you then great.. but surely it would have been better if they were more honest about the simplicity of what it is doing and therefore it's possible benefits to which you have found?.. You then have the choice of self assemble or ready bundled and the comfort of knowing what it is doing for you and why. If there is nothing to hide why not be more open and transparent?

Anyone know why Melco do not list the Naim DAC and V1 in their compatibility list (Naim streaming products and Chord DACs are listed) ?

Hi Simon, 

 I agree we're short on specifics, but I'm not sure most of us would comprehend the explanations if we had them.

There's a brief interview with Alan Ainslie in the Hi-Fi Choice review. He's the Melco General Manager and was also a key figure in the development of NaimNet and the Naim servers. I spoke to him at the Bristol Show a few years ago and he told me about some of the compromises required to develop and market networking devices. In the article, he claims that designing a NAS from scratch (rather than redesigning an existing one) provides a huge sound quality promise because of the totally different architecture. I don't see that he's under any obligation to disclose the exact nature of the architecture.

Jude2012 posted:

Anyone know why Melco do not list the Naim DAC and V1 in their compatibility list (Naim streaming products and Chord DACs are listed) ?

Well the Naim DAC isn't compatible (the Melco doesn't have the required SPDIF outputs).  No idea why the V1 isn't listed ... likely an oversight.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

but surely it would have been better if they were more honest about the simplicity of what it is doing and therefore it's possible benefits to which you have found?.. You then have the choice of self assemble or ready bundled and the comfort of knowing what it is doing for you and why. If there is nothing to hide why not be more open and transparent?

I don't disagree with you Simon ... but since when have any manufacturer been completely transparent about such things ... Naim are often (at least quoted) as talking about the superiority of the rips produced by the UnitiServe and HDX without being open and transparent about how they might be better than rips done bye EAC or dbPowerAmp.  Even when it comes to using the UnitiServe as a UPnP server they rely more on FUD than real transparency or facts.

KRM posted:

he claims that designing a NAS from scratch (rather than redesigning an existing one) provides a huge sound quality promise because of the totally different architecture. I don't see that he's under any obligation to disclose the exact nature of the architecture.

But isn't that where the "problem" of transparency occurs.  At least with the UnitiServe there is little more than a Mini ITX motherboard and off the shelf HDD and CD reader.  Where is the "totally different architecture" there.  The same can be asked of the Melco.

FUD: a new one on me, but very useful. Thanks!

Sweaty Betty technical yoga leggings, for £85, which are all the rage apparently. £20 top shop joggers just won't cut it. Are they fashion's Melco - the same thing for four times the price? Why does it happen?

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

Reading the chap's evaluation it's clear he's biased towads the Aurender, probably because he already owns one. No doubt the Aurender's a nice thing but he does admit the Melco sounds better.

Indeed I was talking about more open and transparent... Naim for example have and do produce white papers of thier new technology... It's only high level and a summary but is enough to appreciate and understand why it works as well as it does.

I went onto the Melco website, and clicked the 'technology' hyper text link and there is nothing of any real revelence...

Keith I find the comment about NASs bemusing. In a UPnP media streaming solution the NAS is irrelevant. If however the term 'NAS' is being used as a short hand for media server... Well then yes many including me don't recommend streaming from a NAS unless you are confident of the underlying TCP flow which 99% of consumers won't be. I recommend a stanalone server, I use a £30 RPi, and it works and sounds a dream. To be fair to Naim I find the Unitiserve sounds as good as my best RPi.

and yes Fear Uncertainty Doubt is an effective defensive selling technique.. I guess many of us might have used it in our professional worlds to great effect. We human beings are insecure things.... 

Simon

PS I think it was a few years back there was a bit of an 'outing' on the forum on Naim rips.. and in the end once we got over CD-ROM calibration it was agreed there was no difference... and I with a couple of others did the proof analysis... so I thought we put that one to bed.. I must try and find the link... I remember emotions got quite high at the time 

Hungryhalibut posted:

FUD: a new one on me, but very useful. Thanks!

Fear Uncertainty and Doubt

It was (I believe) used to refer to IBM marketing where they would suggest that you had to (for example) buy specific hardware, even though cheaper and fully compatible third party hardware was available.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Sweaty Betty technical yoga leggings, for £85, which are all the rage apparently. £20 top shop joggers just won't cut it. Are they fashion's Melco - the same thing for four times the price? Why does it happen?

It's almost like there are two different conversations in this thread. I think the more interesting one is this one. What is it that makes people pay more money for something that is seen as fashionable? It can be a style or quality thing, but I suspect it's often just self-reassurance. Sort of I am more discerning than most people which is why I need to buy this more expensive more exclusive item.

To be very provocative, I think that a lot of the voodoo about interconnects, cable dressing, positioning of black boxes in the stack and so on has its roots in the same thing that makes people buy Sweaty Betty yoga gear.

But if it floats your boat and makes you happy, why not?

best

David

If given a home brew version of Melco with some of its more specific custom type items what would be the specific comparison in costs really and the premium Melco put on top for building it for you. The power supplies, motherboard, OS etc costs £xxx to build yourself. Same for Unitiserve too.

Long time ago I built my own PC based on Windows using best kit available at the time, fiddly job but did it.

Synology with the same type/brand of 2 x 2TB drives is ???, plus power supplies, motherboard, case what are you really getting for your money, plus the sound difference.

Cost wise I'm luckier than most my N1A was used so was a lot cheaper, and I have a Synology running a 2TB HDD internally plus a power conditioner for the mains. 

Although I only have had a short time properly evaluating the audio quality the Melco delivers is so much different to the Synology I am still evaluating.

It reminded me of when I had a SL cable for demo, it changed so much the presentation I needed time to evaluate the differences.

There is a distinct difference, I need a bit of time to create the right words and to understand better what it is to me.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Sweaty Betty technical yoga leggings, for £85, which are all the rage apparently. £20 top shop joggers just won't cut it. Are they fashion's Melco - the same thing for four times the price? Why does it happen?

I find it hard to believe you are blind to the fact that many Naim products exhibit all the "defects" or "qualities " being applied to the "fashionable" Melco and Hugo and sweaty Betty.

If Naim made the Melco, sweaty Betty wouldn't get a mention. 

SJB

Regarding trends speakers suffer this to and in these pages many people say buy a set of speakers ex-demo, if they don't work sell them online and your hit financially is reduced on the buy/sell equation, advocating many of us to knowingly take a small risk but sell if it audio presentation doesn't work out.

I bought a Melco used, if it doesn't offer any value after full evaluation I'll trade it in for Super Lumina or XPS-DR so something else, but I am willing to try it and find out for myself if it does provide any true benefits and an easier more beneficial uses experience (I like the US-SSD for this convenience at the time)

The last dealer I dealt with at a trade show he said out of 26 Companies 22 are using Melco, this may be just convenience I'm not sure, but people pay premiums for Porsche over Ford Focus RS who do the same job 0-60, but isn't it how it does it and how it makes you feel doing that journey IMHO ..... Trends in HiFi. 

I think if I was on the rounds at audio shows, a Melco would be a convenient audio source... 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Sweaty Betty technical yoga leggings, for £85, which are all the rage apparently. £20 top shop joggers just won't cut it. Are they fashion's Melco - the same thing for four times the price? Why does it happen?

Is this thread about marketing strategy applied to the Melco and Hugo? Which are at opposite ends it seems to me.  Chord were fairly transparent in explaining battery vs. no battery for example in the Hugo vs. 2Qute.  Was this good for Chord overall? (only Chord knows).

I guess it comes down to who Chord and Melco (and Yoga pant manf.) believe their target customers/market are and whether they got that assessment right - audiophile, wanna-be audiophile, and mainstream or whatever the segments are.

Jude

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

hi Jude,

yes, i do...and i have a squeezbox touch as well via optical connect to DAC :-)

You'll really hear the differences btw. the digital sources, one could say 0 and 1 is all the same and there is no difference - but it is! 

(...SQ gaps for USB cables as well- I run my digital sources with TQ and I love it)

So my top list is:

#0 LP12 :-)

#1 Aurender

#2 Auralic

# 3 Macmini with M2tech + Jitterbug (running roon or Audirvana,  sometimes i pref. mac vs. Auralic)

#4 Squeezbox

NAS is Qnap 251 and Synology

Ralf

Jude I agree, and I feel Naim marketing strategy is closer to Chord Electronics. As such I am usually fairly trusting of both Naim and Chord.. 

Trust and confidence are important brand values for me.. and one of the jobs of marketing is to communicate your values to your market.

tonym posted:

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

Reading the chap's evaluation it's clear he's biased towads the Aurender, probably because he already owns one. No doubt the Aurender's a nice thing but he does admit the Melco sounds better.

Yes.  A shame that the Melco, in this review, had low scores for usability. Again , this review, the Mac mini comes about ahead of the Aries (third?!)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think if I was on the rounds at audio shows, a Melco would be a convenient audio source... 

I suspect you are right.

T38.45 posted:

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

hi Jude,

yes, i do...and i have a squeezbox touch as well via optical connect to DAC :-)

You'll really hear the differences btw. the digital sources, one could say 0 and 1 is all the same and there is no difference - but it is! 

(...SQ gaps for USB cables as well- I run my digital sources with TQ and I love it)

So my top list is:

#0 LP12 :-)

#1 Aurender

#2 Auralic

# 3 Macmini with M2tech + Jitterbug (running roon or Audirvana,  sometimes i pref. mac vs. Auralic)

#4 Squeezbox

NAS is Qnap 251 and Synology

 

Ralf

Thanks for clarifying this.  

Difficult for me to see how much incremental benefit a Melco or Aurender would give over my current set up, as Nam's V1 has the equivalent of M2tech and Jittebug built in (Audiphilleo).  The elements that are missing in the Mac Mini is the linear PSU, optimised motherboard, and arguably and optimised OS.

Jude

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Jude I agree, and I feel Naim marketing strategy is closer to Chord Electronics. As such I am usually fairly trusting of both Naim and Chord.. 

Trust and confidence are important brand values for me.. and one of the jobs of marketing is to communicate your values to your market.

Absolutely. Over and above the performance of the product itself, trust and back up essential for me when paying a premium price.  

I was disappointed with Chord's execution of the Hugo initially (interconnect fitting issues).  However, they seemed to resolve it.  I guess the difference between Chord Electronics and Naim (based on DACs) is that Chord are happier to take innovations to market quickly and Naim prefer to wait and deliver perfection. 

Jude

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

hi Jude,

yes, i do...and i have a squeezbox touch as well via optical connect to DAC :-)

You'll really hear the differences btw. the digital sources, one could say 0 and 1 is all the same and there is no difference - but it is! 

(...SQ gaps for USB cables as well- I run my digital sources with TQ and I love it)

So my top list is:

#0 LP12 :-)

#1 Aurender

#2 Auralic

# 3 Macmini with M2tech + Jitterbug (running roon or Audirvana,  sometimes i pref. mac vs. Auralic)

#4 Squeezbox

NAS is Qnap 251 and Synology

 

Ralf

Thanks for clarifying this.  

Difficult for me to see how much incremental benefit a Melco or Aurender would give over my current set up, as Nam's V1 has the equivalent of M2tech and Jittebug built in (Audiphilleo).  The elements that are missing in the Mac Mini is the linear PSU, optimised motherboard, and arguably and optimised OS.

Jude

I a nutshell: the Aurender paints a note from a total black backround. The note appears, clear, not fuzzy and left the stage again. I could not reach this with my mac or with the Auralic.

T38.45 posted:

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

Jude2012 posted:

T38.45 posted:

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=793&p

this guy compares Auralic, Aurender and Melco...I'll stay with my Aurender :-)

 

Interesting comparison, albeit into a Devialet.  

Also a very interesting set up from your profile.  Just wondering whether are you using all three products (Mini, Aries, and Aurender) into your MSB Analog DAC? 

Jude

hi Jude,

yes, i do...and i have a squeezbox touch as well via optical connect to DAC :-)

You'll really hear the differences btw. the digital sources, one could say 0 and 1 is all the same and there is no difference - but it is! 

(...SQ gaps for USB cables as well- I run my digital sources with TQ and I love it)

So my top list is:

#0 LP12 :-)

#1 Aurender

#2 Auralic

# 3 Macmini with M2tech + Jitterbug (running roon or Audirvana,  sometimes i pref. mac vs. Auralic)

#4 Squeezbox

NAS is Qnap 251 and Synology

 

Ralf

Thanks for clarifying this.  

Difficult for me to see how much incremental benefit a Melco or Aurender would give over my current set up, as Nam's V1 has the equivalent of M2tech and Jittebug built in (Audiphilleo).  The elements that are missing in the Mac Mini is the linear PSU, optimised motherboard, and arguably and optimised OS.

Jude

I a nutshell: the Aurender paints a note from a total black backround. The note appears, clear, not fuzzy and left the stage again. I could not reach this with my mac or with the Auralic.

Interesting, I've just changed my speakers and get this kind of affect.