Loudspeaker upgrade or not?

Pretty nice setup as is.  If you are looking to remain in the Naim loudspeaker camp perhaps some S600s or preloved SL2s.  Both are really fine and will allow you too remain active.  If you want to go elsewhere for speakers there are many options which I am sure others will suggest.

Good luck.

How old are you SBLs and how recently have they been given some tlc?

The question is whether you want to stay active. Matt has suggested the obvious speakers - you can pick up S600s used for £2,750 (there are some on the fishy place at the moment) and SL2s for less. With the change, you could get an exdem NDS, which would be a good step forward compared to the HDX. 

the SBL's are early 90's and did have replacement drive units in one around 2000 and the other was just serviced at the same time. Thanks f or the suggestion re  SL2 or S600  especially on the used price range. I do wish to stay active and will certainly keep eyes open for some good deals especially noting the good thought from HH re the NDS.

If you could go another 250DR, a change of SNAXO, and another run of naca5, then DBLs ?

Upgrade to SL2, if you can find a nice pair.

Easiest and less expensive way would be to check you SBLs over carefully, they may still have the original tweeter units which are most probably well worn out by now. SBLs can sound awful with worn out tweeters, but this is an easy fix to get the tweeters replaced. If you have problems with a faulty or worn driver unit it maybe time to upgrade to SL2s or find another pair of SBLs that are better than the ones you have.

If you need a boundary speaker, SBLs and SL2s suit your set up

Debs

naim_nymph posted:

If you could go another 250DR, a change of SNAXO, and another run of naca5, then DBLs ?

Upgrade to SL2, if you can find a nice pair.

Easiest and less expensive way would be to check you SBLs over carefully, they may still have the original tweeter units which are most probably well worn out by now. SBLs can sound awful with worn out tweeters, but this is an easy fix to get the tweeters replaced. If you have problems with a faulty or worn driver unit it maybe time to upgrade to SL2s or find another pair of SBLs that are better than the ones you have.

If you need a boundary speaker, SBLs and SL2s suit your set up

Debs

Or NBL's

If your current speakers are serviced and given the thumbs up, how about changing your speaker cable first? I'm sure you would hear an immediate improvement from what your currently using? 

wenger2015 posted:

If your current speakers are serviced and given the thumbs up, how about changing your speaker cable first? I'm sure you would hear an immediate improvement from what your currently using? 

I'm sure you'd hear an immediate difference. Whether you'd hear an improvement is open to debate. I've not tried it on SBLs but when I tried TQ Black on my IBLs it didn't work at all. Definitely worth a try if you can borrow some of course and TQ aren't the only other option obviously.

I would suggest it would have to either be Super Lumina or TQ Ultra blacks...

If your SBLs are up to spec and in good shape I am surprised you feel they are holding the system back (especially "a lot" as you say) - they would seem to be a good match for the setup you have in my opinion.

Could a pair of ATC scm speakers do? Get an active pair and sell your snaxo and power amps. 

I wonder how HDX/ nDac/ 555ps would be into existing rig. There'd be substantial cash left for a Rega Apheta and the original Rega IOS phonostage too.

The rest you could just squander.

Chris

With that budget, there are plenty of non-Naim options. I would look at the new ProAc D48 (with or without the ribbon tweeter) and biamp with the two 250s.

I wouldn't personally go to SL2's from SBL's - more of a sideways step than an upgrade. Yes, the SL2 is a little "sweeter" but in my opinion, isn't a worthwhile upgrade over the SBL. 
After SBL's any speaker will need a proper listening to.
NBL's, if you can find some, are in my opinion a great speaker and a noticeable improvement over the SBL.

I think the performance of speakers has changed a lot since the SBL (which were the only *BL range I could bare - grudging respect more than affection).

If you were going to consider a change, you may be surprised by what can be had from a passive loudspeaker these days. I would definately visit your dealer/s and have a listen to some current speakers in your price range irrespective of whether they are active or not.

It is a big world out there. Many ex users of Naim speakers found a happy home with PMC (though I dont think they sound similar at all). Having 2 250s opens up the possibilities for you even more. There are some great speakers out there where a lone 250 may struggle a bit but 2x250s can drive.

Thank you all for your interest and advice - it's great to have such knowledgeable and willing help on this forum- lots of different options to consider and dealer visits!

If you want to stay active and want an non Naim alternative I believe there is/was an Snaxo for the danish Audiovector speakers. 

In my view there are at least two things wrong with your system and neither is the speaker.

1. QED Silver anniversary? Dear oh dear. Bright, lacking in resolution, depth, recessed midrange, smeared light bass. I could go on, but in a system at your level, it's a nightmare. NACA5 is what you need. Big, difficult to manage and stiff as Deadpool's wick, but musical, powerful, cohesive and rhythmic in ways QED SA can't even start to describe.
2. It sounds like you have an original SNAXO. I was never a fan of that model. The SNAXO-242 is way ahead of it (completely different circuit) and makes active operation make sense (always in my view of course). Personally I'd prefer passive operation over a SNAXO-based system, so the 242 is what I'd be suggesting here.

Other things I'd point a finger at: in a properly setup system, the REL shouldn't be there. Only necessary if you listen to organ music or your room is huge (i.e. minimum 24ft square or so). No idea about your stand/rack - if that's a basic item then I'd look to upgrading that to clean up the system's sound. Finally, is it wired up using a good simple mains distribution block which is star-earthed and doesn't have any surge protection (kills the music)?

You are losing a lot from the system, but not because of the SBLs. 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

When I looked at your profile, Granted, I only really looked properly at the front end of your system. I agree with Frank; he's dealt comprehensively with the speaker end imo.

Cheers, C.

Thanks Frank I will look at your good suggestions re cables (the Snaxo is a 242). The rack is more of a problem as the boxes are all housed within a purpose built wall unit and stand on wooden shelves.

Hi Granted,

Glad to hear you have a 242. The only other thing I'd suggest which I missed in my earlier (rather robust I admit) response is to consider a HiLine between HDX and preamp. Now, here I'm on hazy ground as it's been some years since I heard an HDX, but in the hierarchy of things in my head, I know that such a highly specified system such as yours would benefit from the extra resolution provided by a HiLine. Just another thing to consider. 

I appreciate your limit regarding the wall unit. In that case, live with it and see how the other suggestions work. I fear for system setup here, because typically a purpose built wall unit may push cables up against the wall and not allow for tidy dressing. If this is so, try to make them as tidy as you can and try to ensure they avoid touching the wall (which seems to have a significant effect for some reason I don't understand) or each other. If they must then try to ensure the interconnects and power cables only cross at right angles (!) to minimise interference.

If the wall unit has space around the Naim units themselves, you might want to consider borrowing one of the Naim Fraim glass shelves/ball-bearing/topper sets and trying it under the HDX or under the preamp. I'd try the HDX first. If it's beneficial then it may open an alternative avenue to pursue.

These seemingly minor things can have an inordinately big effect on your system's performance, not necessarily tonally but in terms of construction, cohesiveness and ultimate engagement.

I'd just pursue this avenue first, attempt to optimise your system and see how you get on with it. The SBLs are remarkably good speakers generally speaking. If ultimately, with almost no outlay and good optimisation you're still looking for something different, then let us know your room dimensions as well as any requirements such as near-wall placement, physical size of speaker, etc., so we can know what's likely to work and make sensible suggestions rather than stabbing in the dark.

I hope you find my contribution here useful.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Again many thanks Frank for your considerable thought put into my situation. I must say I am, for the most part, very happy with my SBL's as they fit the room nicely and do sound really good. I suppose having spent a lot of time and money in building the system to it's present level I wondered whether the SBL's, being as old as they are from a development point of view, were able to bring the most out of the latest boxes! Your suggestions are good lateral thinking and do highlight a lot of things which my placement of the system are falling down on. Attending to these "minor" points could, as you say, save me a lot of money and establish whether the performance is indeed needing any upgrade in speaker or just ironing out the basics and of course cables! Incidentally the REL sub is primarily of use in the home cinema mode!  

Regards

Granted