Olive Supercap - Should have done this years ago...

Well done Charlie. I trod a similar path recently, when I came across a 252 and black SC (about 13 years old) at a price too good to pass up. These replaced a NAC 82 and olive HiCap. The music, as you say, is irresistible. I'll get the SC DR'd eventually, but there really is no rush, as the performance is far beyond my expectations, despite the age of the 252 and the SC. 

Jan

The SC2 was such an improvement on the 282 when i owned it that It I'd likely not consider a 282 again without one.

gary yeowell posted:

The SC2 was such an improvement on the 282 when i owned it that It I'd likely not consider a 282 again without one.

I am now in that camp.  I could have done this years ago, and been enjoying music this way since.  Problem is, I never considered olive as an affordable way in.  Since 2012 I have been fixated on the DR version, but unwilling to budget for it.  So Now I am maybe 60% to 80 into the sound at a much smaller fraction of the cost.  I am happy now, and I have a reasonable path forward when the time comes.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Well done Charlie. I trod a similar path recently, when I came across a 252 and black SC (about 13 years old) at a price too good to pass up. These replaced a NAC 82 and olive HiCap. The music, as you say, is irresistible. I'll get the SC DR'd eventually, but there really is no rush, as the performance is far beyond my expectations, despite the age of the 252 and the SC. 

Jan

Jan, yes I feel the same way about both the DR and the 252.  I plan to fully enjoy the music for now.

It is interesting that a couple years ago my system had improved to the point of giving a glimpse of that natural, convincing sound - where you begin to compare sounds to the real thing.  Before, perhaps it was just better and better HiFi.  So now, it seems sufficiently convincing for me to gorget all about the HiFi stuff.  I suppose it has been my attitude changing, every bit as much as the equipment - not sure - but in any case I am for now ever so comfortable enjoying the music.  Maybe one can perceive things this way at many different points along the road (from UnitiQute to Statement, in Naim terms).

Cheers,

Charlie

Charlie good on you man. Glad to hear it. Geez we don't talk for a short bit and the next thing you know you have upgraded. I couldn't agree more. Even though I have upgraded a bit all at once late last year (72, CB HiCap, Intros to 82, Olive Supercar, Allaes) still I had the 82, Olive HiCap in place first since the Supercar wasn't available - I think you heard my setup that way - and thus I was able to appreciate the upgrade that the Supercap by itself made. 

I just had a friend over last night for a long, loud listening session. Every time I listen to music now it is a new revelation. I am loving listening to old music that I have heard a million times and know really well, and then listening to it now and hearing all kinds of layers, aspects, and sounds that I have never heard before. Thrilling is the one word I came away last night with. And there is much to do yet in the sense that the 82, the Supercap, and my old CB 250 all are in need of service - and still it sounds amazing. For now, the price of the servicing is out of the budget as it will take me a bit to restore after getting 2 new pieces of gear plus new speakers, but it is exciting to think about what things can and will sound like when they are serviced and given new life.

I am looking forward to coming by some time and listening to the "new" system. And by the way, I am with you, I thought your system pre-Supercap sounded great.

Again, congrats on the new addition.

Gary

Thanks Gary.  Would love to have you stop by.  Be warned:  My Supercap leaves Monday for Chris West to do his recap magic.  Then, any day soon I will be shipping off the 250.2 for Chris to transform it into a 250DR.  So music will come from the UnitiQute for a few weeks.  That's still not so bad though.  

Charlie

Charlie,

Hope you have reserved your DR kit for you 250 from Chris, cause first batch will be small. 

Yes.  Thanks, Manu.  Chris tells me I am first in line.

Charlie

The Supercap came out of the rack last Sunday night, and is en route to Chris West for recaping.  As an experiment, I put only one of my matched 9-years-since-service olive Hicaps back on the 282 (I was able to find the jumper!).  This system still is very enjoyable, but it was a huge step back from the dynamic realism of the Supercap - whose return I eagerly await.  

Yesterday I put in the second Hicap, and repeated the music that was playing ("Mingus Ah Um").  The new sound was more dynamic, and had more "kick" or "power" as one might expect from a doubling of the power supply to the preamp.  The sound stage was a bit deeper into a bit quieter background.   But I think I can say it was three steps forward, one step back.  There was a bit of an edge to the treble, which, if it remained, might motivate me to remove the second Hicap to retain a more relaxed (one might say "listenable") sound.  I actually did disconnect the second Hicap for a short while to confirm my impressions.   But the second Hicap meant back in and has now been warmed up for a day.  Most of the edge is gone, and I will leave it in to see if it tames further.  I can easily see how one could form an opinion based on "first impression" which may be quite different after some time.

I have to say the difference in dynamics between one Hicap and two Hicaps was greater that what I remember many years ago (when the second one was added to my system) because I now use a NAP250.2 and at that time had a NAP200.  My source and rack are also much better now.

One reason for this experiment was  to see if I could detect any effect from the lack of a full star ground (in the two Hicap configuration), compared to the Supercap or single Hicap configuration (which has a star ground).  I hesitate to draw any conclusion, but I imagined there was a subtle difference:  Clearly the Supercap had what I will describe as "relaxed coherence" to the sound.  The imagined part is that:  maybe the single Hicap powered 282 had this same effect, but with less depth, detain, dynamics and transparency; whereas the two-Hicap version sacrificed a bit of that "relaxed coherence" for the dynamics and depth that was added.  I may get a chance to revisit this after a few more days of warm-up.

So a question for more experienced members:  What have you heard in a warmed-up comparison between one and two Hicaps on a 282? What effect should one expect from the change in grounding arrangement introduced by the second Hicap?  I am simply curious about this - no decisions to be made as I will be using the Supercap when it returns from service.

Charlie

Update:  My 20-year old olive Supercap (which had never been serviced when I ought it) is back on the 282, and has settled in now for three weeks.  Chis West, at AVOptions, has worked his magic on it doing a full recap service.  I am one happy camper!  I think the recap service is above average sound-quality-value per cost in the Naim scheme of things.  The musical improvements that I enjoyed before servicing are present in greater proportion, with the addition of what I will call "elegance and freshness."  Voices and instruments, in most recordings, are more convincing with a quality which I can only describe as "natural and effortless."  The best recordings sound very beautiful.  The worst recordings are what they are.  

I am even more enthusiastic about my decision to add the olive Supercap.  The delay in parts availability for the 250DR upgrade kits has been a blessing in disguise, as I have been able to hear what the recap did for the power supply - then I will be able to independently hear what the DR upgrade does for my 250.2.  And I am so pleased with music replay right now that I am not the least impatient for the amp upgrade.

Happy listening to all...

Charlie

I wish I had not read this thread....  Always was curious about how 282 sounds with Supercap.

Having said that, 2 forum members (Simon-in-suffolk and MangoMonkey) tried SCDR with 282 and seemed to prefer HCDR.

Not sure there will be a 282.2 by the way and even if there is, it will take some very huge and serious improvement to make me want to upgrade my 282. 

Interesting observations. 

Charlie, I received my rebuilt 82 back from Chris several weeks ago now, and I would agree with the "freshness" part of your description. 

I've had a CB HC powering the 82 all along. Today, a HCDR arrives. I plan on listening to a few tracks with the CB then making the switch. Won't be an immediate fair comparison obviously since the HCDR will have been stone cold, but I'm hopeful over time the addition of the HCDR will prove a major plus!

Unfortunately, without adding another shelf (really needs to be a base at this point since I have 4 standard and 1 Intermediate shelfs) to my Fraim, I don't have space for a SC. BUT, the Olive SC was and is something I've been wanting to move onto eventually. Trouble is finding someone willing to sell their SC has got to be one of the most illiquid markets in Naimdom! 

How does the 282 HCDR compare with 282 Supercap non-DR I wonder?

G

GraemeH posted:

How does the 282 HCDR compare with 282 Supercap non-DR I wonder?

G

I'd be interested in that comparison too.

Aric posted:

Interesting observations. 

Charlie, I received my rebuilt 82 back from Chris several weeks ago now, and I would agree with the "freshness" part of your description. 

I've had a CB HC powering the 82 all along. Today, a HCDR arrives. I plan on listening to a few tracks with the CB then making the switch. Won't be an immediate fair comparison obviously since the HCDR will have been stone cold, but I'm hopeful over time the addition of the HCDR will prove a major plus!

Unfortunately, without adding another shelf (really needs to be a base at this point since I have 4 standard and 1 Intermediate shelfs) to my Fraim, I don't have space for a SC. BUT, the Olive SC was and is something I've been wanting to move onto eventually. Trouble is finding someone willing to sell their SC has got to be one of the most illiquid markets in Naimdom! 

Aric,

Enjoy the HicapDR.  It must be sharing a shelf with another half-width box?  My SC went on the shelf that held two Hicaps.

GraemeH posted:

How does the 282 HCDR compare with 282 Supercap non-DR I wonder?

G

GraemeH and Marksnaim,

I have not heard the HicapDR in my system, but I expect it would get one partway between a HiCap and Supercap.  Surely some one has heard this comparison and will share their observations.

Charlie

Charlie,

Thank you. I've been looking forward for a while now in trying out the DR technology.

Yes, my HC sits next to my phono stage. Fortunately the stronger magnetic field lines are perpendicular to the toroidal, so this hasn't been an issue as far as I've been able to hear. But one of these days I'll be able to separate Brain from Brawn. 

Regards

Aric

GraemeH posted:

How does the 282 HCDR compare with 282 Supercap non-DR I wonder?

G

The latter still wins comfortably for me, Graeme. I had that choice about 4 years ago and elected to buy the nonDR SC.  

Mike

Mike that is very interesting, can you describe more?

I have the HCDR with 282, but temped by either Olive Supercap or Supercap DR.

2 forum members have said SCDR on 282 is not much better than HCDR though (and maybe HCDR is better)

analogmusic posted:

Mike that is very interesting, can you describe more?

 

I have the HCDR with 282, but temped by either Olive Supercap or Supercap DR.

2 forum members have said SCDR on 282 is not much better than HCDR though (and maybe HCDR is better)

It was an in-store demo when I was trying the 282.  The benefits that the non-DR SC delivered were instantly obvious: more detail, layering and a much bigger sound-stage from front to back.  It took me one track to know I had to have the SC. Later I tried a SCDR on my 282.  There was an improvement there, and I eventually got my SC DR'ed, but it wasn't a big jump.  When I was trying the 252 I felt the difference between the nonDR SC and SCDR was bigger on that than on the 282, but then SC was designed for the 252.   Given the price differential between a pre-loved nonDR SC and a HCDR I go for the SC every time.

Mike 

Analogmusic, I found the improvements from the non-serviced-20-year-old supercar on my 282 were profound.  To be honest, I could have waited to do the service, and just enjoyed it for some time.  One can get most of the benefit of the SC more affordably, then later invest further in recap, then perhaps an upgrade or trade-in to SC DR.  The first step is by far the biggest.

Or, just forget that you read this post...

Charlie

trying to forget it, but the seed has been planted already, you know how this works...

I did note that Elkman70 who was using supercap DR with his 282, now has 552 DR and 300 DR.

analogmusic posted:

trying to forget it, but the seed has been planted already, you know how this works...

 

I did note that Elkman70 who was using supercap DR with his 282, now has 552 DR and 300 DR.

 

I've recently followed the same path but I could very happily live with a 282/SCDR/250. It's a smashing set-up with a a lovely boogie-factor and great VFM.

that is very nice to know, I love the boogie factor of 282/250, maybe supercap is all I need