Moving on from Mu-so - newbie

272 streaming pre amp

250 power amp

Second hand Naim SBL speakers - largely as they are in budget and can go against a wall.  Alternatively take your pick on whether to expand the speaker budget by getting a pre-loved power amp or not. 

Thanks

Other limitations apply. Space for floorstanders limited. Had SBLs 20 years ago, I think that they are a bit to wide across the face, and my acoustic memoru is not good enough to remember them. Also, cannot stand speakers directly against the wall. Also would prefer not to use all the budget, and because of limited number of power outlets, would prefer a one-box solution for streamer - presumably a xxxunitixx.

I think that the speakers are the problem.

So, your speakers need to be 'very close' to the wall, but you 'cannot stand speakers directly against the wall'. Do you see a contradiction here? Perhaps you could specify the precise distance that is tolerable?

SBLs, for example, take up less space than speakers on stands....

It's dufficult to be specific. The wall has a few immutable features. On the right there is a cabinet built into a recess, but projecting forward of the main wall face. On the left, a radiatior is nearby, and a chest of drawers that we will replace with one that is less wide across its face. Being a newbie, I am not sure how to post pic, but will try in next post.

UGH

It seems that I cannot upload picture files, and I don't understand what is meant by source in the insert/edit images dialog ...

I uploaded the image to Flickr - here's hoping this works

Looks like it didn't work, back to FAQs

Here's the wall. On the left, you can see the toe of the door into the room, the cabinet which we can replace with one that is less wide, and the yellow cabinet projecting into the room on the right. Mu-so presently sitting under the TV in the recess.

SamC posted:

272 streaming pre amp

250 power amp

Second hand Naim SBL speakers - largely as they are in budget and can go against a wall.  Alternatively take your pick on whether to expand the speaker budget by getting a pre-loved power amp or not. 

Given the OP's budget of £6500, the amps at new price would be more than that, so how much would you think about for paying for s/h SBL's?

A well known auction site will be able to assist with second hand values. 

A dealer is unlikely to stick rigidly to full list price if buying source, pre and power at the same time. 

The 272 is £3,300, and you can pick up a 250 from £1,000 or so, or a 250.2 for £1,400, which leaves £1,800 for the SBLs. That should be enough for three pairs. 

Looking at the OPs room, SBLs would be a non starter. Small standmount a such as PMC 21s would work, though it would hard to get into the cupboard. It is very likely to be better to put the system somewhere entirely different. £6,500 is an awful lot of money to spend, and the system needs to be located to get the best from it. These speakers, with a SuperUniti, would be my choice, so long as the positioning can be resolved. 

SamC posted:

A well known auction site will be able to assist with second hand values. 

A dealer is unlikely to stick rigidly to full list price if buying source, pre and power at the same time. 

Yes I see there are pairs currently available from £450-750. The difficulty, for me, is that speakers, for wholly understandable reasons, tend to be collect only when sold s/h. Not so easy in Northern Ireland. I have tried more localised versions of the well known auction site but hi quality speakers don't seem to crop up too often. I also have my very friendly local Naim dealer on the look out, so here's hoping. I too have a small room, 4x3m, albeit with a lot less of the irregular features that the OP appears to have. Would SBL's overpower such a room? I have a 272/250 and LP12 as source.

I agree with HungryHalibut. The SuperUniti is compact and excellent and you can get a newish pre-owned one for £2.5K or less. I would suggest buying the standmounts from a dealer and actually trying a couple of different pairs at home before deciding.

best

David

They would be fine. Have a look at Tom Tom audio. As long as they have the original packing they can be sent by courier. (For BT rather than OP).

Cheers HH

OP here...

Here's another pic. Obviously cannot change the room, can shuffle furniture to a limited extent. We have a larger room on the floor above, but even though it's larger it's even more difficult to see a way of arranging thins. In any event, that isn't where we 'live' and the music is part of our life - the mu-so is 'on' at least 8 hours a day, often more.

For a number of reasons, I'm reluctant to go s/h for source, and an additional (and not inconsiderable) difficulty is that we're in rural - Le Marche - Italy, so auditioning is a problem.

Here's another image, taken from the listening position

It's a bit scruffy at the moment, but once we've selected the music system, we're going to coordinate things so that it's less of a hotch-potch.

As I said, would prefer an integrated front-end, so the 272/250 combination that has been suggested may not be what I'm looking for. The front-end would sit where the mu-so is at present.

What about removing the brown chest of drawers, moving the wall shelves, and putting the cream cabinet in the middle - then get wall mounted speakers on each side of the cream cabinet

You could lose the CDs and put a SuperUniti or 272/200 on top of the yellow chest - the two boxes should sit side by side. So long as you could place the right hand speaker 20cm in front of the cabinet you should be fine. There is no problem in buying a used SU, even if you buy from the uk and have it shipped. I used to have an SU, and now have a 272/250, which is just so much better it's unbelievable. That was the thinking behind the 272. If you got that new, and a used 200 you'd have plenty left for some speakers. Being in Le Marche, some little Sonus Faber standmounts could work. I've not heard them - in fact the only small speakers I've heard in the past couple of years are the PMC 21s, which are really good and easy to place.

I have pmc twenty 21's with nait xs and it sounds very good.the twenty 21's are very forgiving about positioning and should be fine in your room,definitely worth an audition along with a superuniti or uniti2 as space looks as though it's at a premium in the room.

OP here

CDB - thanks for the suggestion, but the yellow cabinet and shelves are built-in to a recess, and cannot be moved without considerable expense.

Hungry halibut: the idea is to remove the Mu-so which is sitting on the upper shelf in the yellow cabinet under the TV, and the source (whether it be SuperUniti, 272/200 or whatever) sit where the Mu-so is sited at present.  The naim dealer I purchased the Mu-so from has demoed - at their shop - some Rogers LS3/5As, one pair of compact B&W standmounts, a pair of 'myspeaker', and a floorstanding audio physic. I didn't think that the 'myspeaker' were up to much, the B&W had a rear-facing bass port which wouldn't work here and were too forward for me. The Rogers sounded a bit thin. I liked the acoustic physic, but the grilles at low-level would soon fall victim to the cat's claws. This dealer also carry Harbeth, ProAc, Spendor, & Graham - but there none of these available for first audition, likewise he used a SuperNait hooked up to a marantz streamer. From your response it would seem that you know the region in which we live: I haven't been able to identify any Sonus Faber dealers.  As for PMC dealers, the PMC web site only lists two dealer - one in Pisa, the other in Padova - which are a bit too far for me. 

Skinny puppy immediate prev. sentence for comment on PMC, but thanks.

There is a further issue, which I hesitate to mention here, but naim equipment is VERY much more expensive here in  Italy, even allowing for exchange rates. For example, the SuperUniti retails in the UK for £3675, whilst here the list price is Euros 5500!! The Mu-so here, is very in parity, for some reason. This difference in price might tip the balance for me, making s/h naim streamer/amp a much more attractive proposition. I hadn't see Tomtom's web site previously, thanks for the tip.

Oops forgot to add - I like the Mu-so very much, but miss the precise image. Ideally what I'd like would be a stereo pair of mu-so's, which, of course, is not possible. Therefore I am looking for something that will produce a very similar sound, maybe with better definition in the bass, though.

Well all the nonsense about Brexit will probably kill sterling before it's over, so you may find that the price shifts and you could also look at buying an ex--demo unit from a UK dealer and have it shipped. I paid about £2300 for a two year old "ex-demo" SuperUniti from a Naim dealer about 6 months ago. But of course I could drive there and pick it up.

And I am actually using it with a pair of LS3/5As in a small room (my office). The speaker is rather bass light as you have noticed, but very neutral and I wouldn't swap them personally. But whether they are good value depends what you pay. I bought mine new 30 years or more ago and they were in the loft for ten of those years!

Anyway good luck with your search.

best

David

blag posted:

OP here

CDB - thanks for the suggestion, but the yellow cabinet and shelves are built-in to a recess, and cannot be moved without considerable expense.

 

Sorry - should have read more carefully. Good luck with finding a solution!

Clive

David Hendon posted:

Well all the nonsense about Brexit will probably kill sterling before it's over, so you may find that the price shifts and you could also look at buying an ex--demo unit from a UK dealer and have it shipped. I paid about £2300 for a two year old "ex-demo" SuperUniti from a Naim dealer about 6 months ago. But of course I could drive there and pick it up.

And I am actually using it with a pair of LS3/5As in a small room (my office). The speaker is rather bass light as you have noticed, but very neutral and I wouldn't swap them personally. But whether they are good value depends what you pay. I bought mine new 30 years or more ago and they were in the loft for ten of those years!

Anyway good luck with your search.

best

David

Just realised how to reply with quote. Thanks David, none of the naim dealers that I have spoken with will ship new kit from the UK, and although I do not want to deprive an Italian dealer of profit, the difference in price here is, in my opinion, unjustifiable, so you may be right, buy ex demo or used. As for speakers, I did find the LS3/5a's a bit light in the bass, and quite a bit lighter than the mu-so, which I am using as a reference.

Cdb posted:

blag posted:

OP here

CDB - thanks for the suggestion, but the yellow cabinet and shelves are built-in to a recess, and cannot be moved without considerable expense.

 

Sorry - should have read more carefully. Good luck with finding a solution!

Clive

I appreciate your input.