ovators (S-400, 600, 800) production stopped

Dear Strat,

Do you think that Naim will support Kudos when they are in tow of Focal?

It is an interesting point. I suspect that active cross-overs have finally seen the nadir if this story about Ovators being ended is true. Like the Aro the issue will be history ...

I would guess that two dozen sales or even four times that will see off any potential R&D effort for outside made speakers. I see no evidence that the Statement series was designed with Active cross-overs in mind ...

ATB from George

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

If true, then I suppose that the Active cross-vers are also numbered in their days of production.

I find it remarkable that Naim still offer the Snaxo 242 and, since the demise of Allaes and SL2s, no speakers to use it with. So perhaps the other Snaxos will remain in production too.

But it's sad news that Naim stop making speakers: I've had Intros, Credos, Allaes and now the SL2s, which hopefully have some years of life left. And should the SL2s break beyond repair sometime, it'll be Exakt Linn speakers I'm afraid, not Focal.

I’d lay a little bet that the only reason why Active cross-overs are still for sale is that some units are made up! And the parts are still there to be made up. But when the parts are exhausted [if they ever are] then like the Aro, they will be history, unless I am mistaken and Naim make these things for the fun of it.

ATB from George

This might also explain why the BMR Snaxo never made it onto the Naim website. Disappointing news for us active fans.

jfritzen posted:

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

If true, then I suppose that the Active cross-vers are also numbered in their days of production.

I find it remarkable that Naim still offer the Snaxo 242 and, since the demise of Allaes and SL2s, no speakers to use it with. So perhaps the other Snaxos will remain in production too.

But it's sad news that Naim stop making speakers: I've had Intros, Credos, Allaes and now the SL2s, which hopefully have some years of life left. And should the SL2s break beyond repair sometime, it'll be Exakt Linn speakers I'm afraid, not Focal.

There are lots of people using Allaes, IBLs, SBLs and SL2s passively, who may want to go active. The crossovers, like most of the stuff, are made to order, so as long as they have the bits, the crossovers can be assembled. 

I'm sure active is great, but taken to its conclusion, with a ten box amplifier, more wires than you can imagine, and a set up so sensitive that the merest tweak seems to affect performance, one can see why it's such a minority area that it's perhaps not worth supporting. 

MDS posted:

As others have suggested, this would seem to make some sense from a business perceptive - why compete in the same market? And as a Focal fan I wouldn't be disappointed personally.  That said, the S800 isn't very old and I guess Naim would have invested substantially in R&D before launching it so I suspect they might not have recovered their costs on that model.  No doubt they will continue to support the Ovator model range with spares etc.

Unfortunately for all Ovators lovers the fact that Naim possibly didn't  amortize the R&D costs it's not relevant from a business point of view: if a company decides to sell a new product in a certain price or quality range she will not have any economical reason to stay with the old one (apart from finishing the already produced stock) . There is a "marketing reason" (either you offer the old product to a discounted price - but by doing this you will strongly disqualify the product itself that till yesterday you claimed to be "the best of all" - or your will disorientate your costumer that will think: hey if the company still offer the older product why should I think that the new one is better / a step forward ?) and there is a "cost reason" (to achieve a reasonable number of sales for the older product that justifies a "production line" a company has to keep on investing in advertising etc. and due to the fact that resources are limited, this would imply to subtract resources from the new product). That said I strongly suspect that Naim will stop producing the Ovators.

Next step will be Focal speakers in the Bentley/Mu-so/Qb et al, powered by Naim electronics.  The two companies are focusing on their core competencies - which since the merger was just a matter of time - obviously more of an impact to Naim, but I think this move should be applauded and any IP that Naim put into the Ovator's will be transitioned to future generation's of the Focal's.

Not being a fan of Naim speakers it doesn't bother me on that front, but the fact they stop production of a core "hi-fi" product category and ramp up on lifestyle "Muso" is a concern.

However, without being too reactionary it is perhaps good to put it in perspective. There are many very well respected electronics manufacturers out there with no speaker range of their own and many are larger than Naim. It doesn't seem to follow that this decision would diminish Naim in any way.

Both Focal and Naim speakers are bit cult. You either love them or hate them. There is not a lot of sitting on the fence. So it is not like Naim are deleting a main-stream product from their range.

The tieup with Focal may still yet yield more things. SInce they share research, who's to say that Focal will not pick up with the BMR technology and take it to new heights. That is definately a stretch (since no announcemenet has been made either way) but the combination of Focal and Naim speaker technology may actually yield products that have broader appreciation than either currently do (which is, let's face it, is limited).

The move might in fact signal more focus of hi-fi since a lifestyle company (which is what I greatly fear Naim becoming) needs speakers in their portfolio. As such, other thant he obvious sadness felt by the fans of Ovators, I am fairly open to see what will take shape in the years to come.

Could it be that Naim intend to soon introduce a new loudspeaker line?  Maybe even something "active" as in Mu-so, but of Classic range caliber?

HH could have a two-box solution...

I certainly hope so....

CharlieP posted:

Could it be that Naim intend to soon introduce a new loudspeaker line?  Maybe even something "active" as in Mu-so, but of Classic range caliber?

HH could have a two-box solution...

Indeed, with the shared Focal R&D, product development and other back room resources, this I feel could be an interesting possibility. Using the Naim brand name to address a specific market and customer base.. after all this is one of the benefits of mergers and acquisitions... Certainly in engineering so why not in consumer electronics?

feeling_zen posted:

 who's to say that Focal will not pick up with the BMR technology and take it to new heights. That is definately a stretch

I speculated on this same thought when the Focal group initially bought Naim several years ago. Focal was using no BMR drivers at the time and is not today. So it seems we have the answer.

The Ovator market may have reached saturation, but that's not to say they aren't destined to become classics.

I'd love to have a pair of sl2s.

Focal to me sound hard like concrete and are crazy expensive.

Yes Nactive speakers with Naim amplification would be very interesting! I would however have a very hard time switching from Audiovector speakers. But an active setup with 3 amps snaxo and a power supply compared with a 2 speaker system and a source, makes the active speakers an interesting route. The problem is you  have to put down all the money at once. I would not have been able to get the system I have today, had it not been for the  gradual upgrades supported both by Naim and Audiovector. Well looking forward to a demo this  thirsday with the  latest updated version of the SR6 speakers.

Claus  

Guy007 posted:

Next step will be Focal speakers in the Bentley/Mu-so/Qb et al, powered by Naim electronics.  The two companies are focusing on their core competencies - which since the merger was just a matter of time - obviously more of an impact to Naim, but I think this move should be applauded and any IP that Naim put into the Ovator's will be transitioned to future generation's of the Focal's.

Mine is not a direct reply to this post, but a parallel consideration. Without wanting to discuss the merits of Focal, I think that Naim brought to Focal much more than Focal brought to Naim. Twenty years ago I frequented an audio shop that sold JMLab-Focal, and they were considered bright, technologic speakers somewhere halfway between high-supermarket level and not-too-demanding audiophile one. For sure, I have never heard a Focal speaker I liked, and have barely heard a Naim speaker I didn't. What Naim has brought to speaker design is, globally, clever, idiomatic, evolutionary, visually stimulating. Focal was never discussed here before they bought Naim.

So, I still think that this move, although understandable from an economical point of view – and much more from a corporate point of view – makes us culturally poorer, if an audio culture still exists.

P.S. In the French film Une heure de tranquillité, where the main character owns a Naim system that's been long discussed here, the guy says: I have the best loudspeakers in the world (Focal Utopia or something of the same, unassuming type of name), but Naim is not even mentioned once. But then, where the word chauvinism comes from?

Best

M

Having never heard Naim speakers I don't know what I'm going to miss. But they were good looking

I think that no audio company ever has exploited the form follows function principle so cleverly as Naim.

Or is it as...as? I still struggle with English grammar, sorry.

Massimo indeed one would typically use "as cleverly as Naim"  if referring to Naim comparatively.

Always impressed with non native English speakers on this forum... assuming you are non native English speaking of course.....

I'd use the form that Massimo has used - 'as cleverly as' sounds clumsy. The point being made is that the design is very clever, so 'so cleverly as' makes the point. It may be grammatically incorrect of course!

CharlieP posted:

Could it be that Naim intend to soon introduce a new loudspeaker line?  Maybe even something "active" as in Mu-so, but of Classic range caliber?

HH could have a two-box solution...

That would be four boxes - 272, XPS and two speakers! What I heard was that Naim were stopping doing speakers, rather than discontinuing the Ovator range. Still, never say never. 

Massimo Bertola posted:

Guy007 posted:

Next step will be Focal speakers in the Bentley/Mu-so/Qb et al, powered by Naim electronics.  The two companies are focusing on their core competencies - which since the merger was just a matter of time - obviously more of an impact to Naim, but I think this move should be applauded and any IP that Naim put into the Ovator's will be transitioned to future generation's of the Focal's.

Mine is not a direct reply to this post, but a parallel consideration. Without wanting to discuss the merits of Focal, I think that Naim brought to Focal much more than Focal brought to Naim. Twenty years ago I frequented an audio shop that sold JMLab-Focal, and they were considered bright, technologic speakers somewhere halfway between high-supermarket level and not-too-demanding audiophile one. For sure, I have never heard a Focal speaker I liked, and have barely heard a Naim speaker I didn't. What Naim has brought to speaker design is, globally, clever, idiomatic, evolutionary, visually stimulating. Focal was never discussed here before they bought Naim.

So, I still think that this move, although understandable from an economical point of view – and much more from a corporate point of view – makes us culturally poorer, if an audio culture still exists.

P.S. In the French film Une heure de tranquillité, where the main character owns a Naim system that's been long discussed here, the guy says: I have the best loudspeakers in the world (Focal Utopia or something of the same, unassuming type of name), but Naim is not even mentioned once. But then, where the word chauvinism comes from?

Best

M

 

There are quite some arguments why Naim should not quit making them.

1) On the market there is precious little choice for closed box design and Naim is one of theme

2) They sound clean fast  and open and one of the above reason.

3) The clever level of engeneering of mechanical parts, detatchable x overs, etc

4) The option to go active whenever is desidered.

On the other hand i 'd be not concerned if Naim ever decided to stop making Mu-so, a useless square box with

that Italianate embarassing naim ( Muso = long face,  Musone = sulky person)

Regards

Roberto

Hi

This weekend i went to Lisbon Audio Show.

In the Naim room i listened NDX+252+300+Focal speakers with SL cables.

Just my opinion but I don't think Focal speakers match that well with Naim, i find them too analytical. 

If this was my first contact with a naim system i don't think i would leave with a good impression. I couldn't detect  the traditional naim qualities (prat, immediacy, emotion).

It is true that the room was very complicated and speaking to one of the guys he told me that in the "shop" the same system played much better.

Regards

Rui

P.S. In the French film Une heure de tranquillité, where the main character owns a Naim system that's been long discussed here, the guy says: I have the best loudspeakers in the world (Focal Utopia or something of the same, unassuming type of name), but Naim is not even mentioned once. But then, where the word chauvinism comes from?

Focal paid to have their name mentioned in the film.

Sensible news. Naim and speakers never was a lucky combination.