Kiwi cat posted:

Lastly and most importantly they are cat-proof. Our cats claws used to dig into the bass units of earlier speakers, but the wire mesh protects them and thus they remain mint, and the cat avoids "a long ride over the hills"!

 

 

For us, the 600s are dog proof. Wagging tails are deflected with ease by the rigid covers. And they sound great. Even driven by the humble SN1.

Some interesting comments for sure, and as I said before, I hope that the technologies Naim implemented in the Ovators can be used by Focal, so that the future speakers are more complimentary of Naim system and others too, as broad appeal = more profits and re investment into R&D. I know people on here don't generally like Kef, but their investment in the Blades then trickled into the LS50's which in terms of sound, appeal and price point hit it out of the park.  Generally though, when corporate alliances occur it takes a generation or two before the products really hit their stride.

In terms of culturally poorer, time will tell, I'm sure they are hoping for a culturally richer future.

With ever more competing electronics and ever shrinking budgets, I think Mu-so and Qb bring more people into the brand than hadn't previously heard of them outside of specialist hifi shops or magazines. Apple stores certainly broaden the name recognition. And that gets folks on the first step of the musical ladder and is a very good thing for Naim.

And some observations:

From my experience of Naim systems in stores, I have never seen/heard Ovator's used in conjunction with them.

Based on comments in the forum, Ovator's (like Focal's) are like Marmite, you either love them or hate them.

Ovator's are never talked about with non Naim systems.

When speaker recommendations are asked for on here, Ovators are not the primary or secondary recommendation generally.

More and more talk on here refers to people downsizing and reducing box count, as a result, passive speakers reign over the need for active.

Kiwi cat posted:

Lastly and most importantly they are cat-proof. Our cats claws used to dig into the bass units of earlier speakers, but the wire mesh protects them and thus they remain mint, and the cat avoids "a long ride over the hills"!

 

 

Au contraire, I have S-400's and my young cat has learned how to extract the wire mesh, not only from the lowest but also from the middle bass driver.  No harm done, it's a very surgical operation, and I just replace the mesh when necessary; fortunately, he's not interested in the woofer cone itself.

Allante93 posted:

christoph posted:

@allante: i don't understand what you mean, maybe because i'm german; I've read this in a german forum and i thought its could be interesting to post here; if you want to offend (right word?) me, please explain. christoph

Christoph, I was trying to say nice post, and at the right time.  That's why so many our responding to your post! 

I like it very much! 

Nice scoop means, as a new reporter, someone breaks the news first, just as you have done, Thanks!  

 

Definition of Scoop:  information especially of immediate interest.  

auf Wiedersehen!

Allante93!

 

@allante93: oh sorry, my misunderstanding was really because i am german . please excuse me. christoph ps.: sometimes it is difficult to read and write in an english forum as a non native speaker; i know all the words, but i don't understand the nuances. but this forum is so good and the german naim forum (one topic with more than 400 pages!) is so bad!

I've sold Naim speakers at my shop, Tune, for the last 9 years. Own nSats at home presently. I've sold a couple to several of every speaker they make, but that honestly isn't that much. I've sold more PMC and Rega and Epos and Totem speakers with Naim electronics. I wish it were otherwise. Naim make a unique and compelling musical transducer. I think they are the natural extension of their balanced engineering and PRaT filled delivery. I hope they return to speaker manufacture in the future.  

Thanks for all the great speakers, Naim.

Sigh.

aht posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

Lastly and most importantly they are cat-proof. Our cats claws used to dig into the bass units of earlier speakers, but the wire mesh protects them and thus they remain mint, and the cat avoids "a long ride over the hills"!

 

 

Au contraire, I have S-400's and my young cat has learned how to extract the wire mesh, not only from the lowest but also from the middle bass driver.  No harm done, it's a very surgical operation, and I just replace the mesh when necessary; fortunately, he's not interested in the woofer cone itself.

Only one instance of the wire guard being removed by one of my cats. I think they fell on it after tugging it loose -- slightly out of shape, but easy to restore. I think the cat learnt a lesson.

Guy007 posted:

More and more talk on here refers to people downsizing and reducing box count, as a result, passive speakers reign over the need for active.

 

Active speakers reduce the box count further over passive designs as you don't need a seperate power amp.. Perhaps you are referring to active cross over designs which seem to require a plethora of boxes and cables.

There is a positive and interesting review out there in one of the comics of a single box setup using a 272 driving a pair ATC SCM40A active speakers.

Simon

winkyincanada posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

Lastly and most importantly they are cat-proof. Our cats claws used to dig into the bass units of earlier speakers, but the wire mesh protects them and thus they remain mint, and the cat avoids "a long ride over the hills"!

 

 

For us, the 600s are dog proof. Wagging tails are deflected with ease by the rigid covers. And they sound great. Even driven by the humble SN1.

Our 600s are cat proof.  She took a liking to chewing the foam grilles on my previous SBLs.  Grilles that had remained flawless for the previous 15 odd years.   Grrr.

heihei posted:

As a lover of Ovators in an active form, my bigger concern is whether ceasing production of Ovators (which I fully get from a commercial perspective) will reduce Naim's interest in active set-ups. Feedback from the Naim I've had indirectly is that they will continue to support active, but I guess only time will tell as to the level of commitment.

I was thinking about this yesterday...

S600s/800s are 2.5 way speakers.  IF (BIG IF) Focal were to launch an active version of one of their speakers then would it be a 2 way, 2.5 way or 3 way design?

Only one of those options would give us a floaty Snaxo without significant rework.

If the requirement ended up being new speaker design AND new Snaxo then it's even less likely to happen

aht posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

Lastly and most importantly they are cat-proof. Our cats claws used to dig into the bass units of earlier speakers, but the wire mesh protects them and thus they remain mint, and the cat avoids "a long ride over the hills"!

 

 

Au contraire, I have S-400's and my young cat has learned how to extract the wire mesh, not only from the lowest but also from the middle bass driver.  No harm done, it's a very surgical operation, and I just replace the mesh when necessary; fortunately, he's not interested in the woofer cone itself.

Mine hasn't figured that out.  Yet.  She's also not jumped on them, possibly because of the height and possibly due to the slope of the top.  She had perched on top of my SBLs before.

The real tragedy was when naim stopped making the DBLs. These may very well be  the best speakers ever made. SL2's NBL's were a chip off the old block but nothing I have heard comes close to DBL's - music is just magnificent through them.

Never heard S800's, I'm sure they were good, madness that a real engineering company  no longer makes speakers, a product that requires real electro-mechanical know how to reproduce life like music. If you have naim speakers on the end of a naim system, especially active, you hear and feel every thing that naim represents and everything that has given them the respect that they have today. 

Mario.

B&W is selling loads of the new 800 series speakers, but somehow Naim speakers just don't have that kind of appeal or sales volumes.

A Company cannot be the best at everything, because it eventually ends up being average at everything, due to allocation of resources which are not able to cope.

it is always better for companies to focus on what they best at.

Indeed apple do state, "what we choose not to make, is as important as what we choose to make"

It is a sensible decision and I look forward to better and newer products from Naim.

 After all how many speaker companies do you know, that are trying to make amplifiers, streamers and DACS?

analogmusic posted:

B&W is selling loads of the new 800 series speakers, but somehow Naim speakers just don't have that kind of appeal or sales volumes.

A Company cannot be the best at everything, because it eventually ends up being average at everything, due to allocation of resources which are not able to cope.

it is always better for companies to focus on what they best at.

Indeed apple do state, "what we choose not to make, is as important as what we choose to make"

It is a sensible decision and I look forward to better and newer products from Naim.

 After all how many speaker companies do you know, that are trying to make amplifiers, streamers and DACS?

 

 

B&W is worldwide recognizable. Naim is not. (the sales number is a reflection)

its a fact: there are brands that only a aficionado (fan) of the audiofile world would know.

for me, Naim is one of the best kept secrets in hi-fi. it took me 15 years to get to known the brand:

heard "X" systems in an audioshow some 3 years ago and i remenber thinking: 

the best sounding one is from that room. what is it?

- 500 range from Naim, said a cousin of mine....

It has been said in the beginning of this fusion that both companies will continue their job without to interfere. It seems, after few years, that even for such a small part of the market, Focal would grab it at its profit.

Closed speakers are very special and not replacable for those who likes them. At this point, that's disappointing as it is not said that they will be replaced by a new range.

Even if the speakers department is not as profitable as other department, it is not any less important for the Naim brand identity - so in the end a big pitty.

Cheers everybody

The thing is, if they don't make a profit, Naim can't keep making them. Naim's turnover has grown significantly in recent years and the space freed up can doubtless be used for more profitable activities. It's ok to be misty eyed about the speakers, but if more people had bought them I'm sure they'd still be being made. Just look around the Forum users' systems - what proportion use Naim speakers? 10% maybe? And that's among Naim's most loyal fans. 

A few years ago I helped a friend to get her Naim system, and suggested nSats, to go with a CD5i and Nait 5i. You don't want those, said her local dealer, and sold her some PMCs instead. Even my local Naim dealer stopped stocking Ovators a couple of years ago because nobody was buying them, and of course if they are not stocked they no longer become a viable option for auditioning. 

That said, I've got some Naim speakers and think they are wonderful. 

No surprise here, the surprise is it took so long to happen.

SJB

 

for me, Naim is one of the best kept secrets in hi-fi. it took me 15 years to get to known the brand 

 

it just occurred to me, that there is a certain limited capacity in the factory, and Naim cannot make more than a certain amount of kit each year in Salisbury. 

The Muso is another matter...

analogmusic posted:

B&W is selling loads of the new 800 series speakers, but somehow Naim speakers just don't have that kind of appeal or sales volumes.

A Company cannot be the best at everything, because it eventually ends up being average at everything, due to allocation of resources which are not able to cope................It is a sensible decision and I look forward to better and newer products from Naim.

 After all how many speaker companies do you know, that are trying to make amplifiers, streamers and DACS?

None, good point Analog!

Agreed +2. 

""It's a good buy for Focal. Focal has mostly loudspeaker experience but they also have powered speakers and automotive amplifiers. Naim is skilled at making compact, clean amplifiers and digital gear, so they can help further develop the amplifiers used in the Focal lines. Focal also produces powered subwoofers of course and all need amp modules, so having a top quality source is a good thing. They also push the envelope with regard to state of the art loudspeaker innovations and we might find an active x-over or powered woofer, etc in use in their home loudspeakers as well as pro monitors. Further, it gives Focal a strong presence in the UK...""

Is the Glass half empty, or half  full!  

Time will Tell !

Allante93!

IMO the classic Naim speakers have been unique in several aspects:

• Possbile use without passive crossover
• Near wall placement 
• Careful use of ports which made them sound less bloated
• Careful placement of the tweeter which made them sound very open

It'll be difficult to find other speakers with the same features.

jfritzen posted:

IMO the classic Naim speakers have been unique in several aspects:

• Possbile use without passive crossover
• Near wall placement 
• Careful use of ports which made them sound less bloated
• Careful placement of the tweeter which made them sound very open

It'll be difficult to find other speakers with the same features.

 

Yet they don't sell. So either the market will fill the gap, or those traits are not actually sought after.

Certainly bloaty flabby bass seems to be considered an attribute by a few people who have listened to my system-and found it lacking!

I don't understand the science but aren't Naim almost unique in having a range of unported speakers. Why so few like them?

Bloaty flabby bass seems to be all the rage these days, for some strange reason. 

analogmusic posted:

 

for me, Naim is one of the best kept secrets in hi-fi. it took me 15 years to get to known the brand 

 

it just occurred to me, that there is a certain limited capacity in the factory, and Naim cannot make more than a certain amount of kit each year in Salisbury. 

The Muso is another matter...

Yes. Muso will bring more gain in image.

but not a hifi product. More of trend one. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bloaty flabby bass seems to be all the rage these days, for some strange reason. 

I agree. Thing is Nigel, we are Generation Kan, with all that implies about Linn record players, NAP250s and dynamic, articulate bass.

Nowadays imaging and soundstaging seem to be at the forefront of what speaker buyers want, from speakers that stand in free-space. I generalise but you get the point.

Chris

I don't think I have ever heard anyone not of this forum to say a good thing about Naim speakers.  Most other forums and hifi fans I have heard discuss them seem to have a view that they are overpriced and that there are much better alternatives available for much less money.  Even the two dealers I use don't push them and one doesn't sell them at all.  If they don't sell and Naim aren't making a large enough margin from them then it makes sense to drop them and focus on more profitable areas.

dayjay posted:

 Most other forums and hifi fans I have heard discuss them seem to have a view that they are overpriced and that there are much better alternatives available for much less money.

+1

That is my view too

I spent to much money on the Naim electronics, I simply could not afford their speakers

and hence I found some good speakers with Dynaudio and previously with B&W.