ovators (S-400, 600, 800) production stopped

In my travels outside this forum , I have encountered  various threads in  different sites praising the Ovators. I could post links, but that would be breaking forum rules.  

There will always be people who dislike Naim speakers compared to other manufactures , but that's cool to have a choice! Just show some respect to those who actually like them.  

Long live the Ovators!

I didn't say that I agreed Tony, just stated my experience elsewhere.  Choice is great and there are lots of people who's views I respect on here with Naim speakers on the end of great systems but at the end of the day they are clearly not popular elsewhere or they would be selling better and not discontinued. No disrespect in saying that. 

dayjay posted:.  Most other forums and hifi fans I have heard discuss them seem to have a view that they are overpriced and that there are much better alternatives available for much less money. 

Others have said the exact same thing when it comes to their electronics too.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Guy007 posted:

More and more talk on here refers to people downsizing and reducing box count, as a result, passive speakers reign over the need for active.

 

Active speakers reduce the box count further over passive designs as you don't need a seperate power amp.. Perhaps you are referring to active cross over designs which seem to require a plethora of boxes and cables.

There is a positive and interesting review out there in one of the comics of a single box setup using a 272 driving a pair ATC SCM40A active speakers.

Simon

Simon. I was more thinking the single box was a sn2 or uniti range.

But I hear what you are saying on the active systems. And certainly not as many people have the money or space for active cross over systems as they use to.  Guy

Hate to say I told you so....

Was kicked for this news some days ago. So better listen when I say

analogmusic posted:

 I found some good speakers with Dynaudio and previously with B&W.

I think you are being modest, Dynaudio makes exceptional rather than just good sounding speakers.

As an aside,  over the years, when Naim dealers would demonstrate it's electronics at CES shows in the States, they used Dynaudio and Focal. I always thought that was strange. Why not use your own brand of speakers to highlight your electronics?

My Naim dealer in the States did not like them and would not carry them (Ovators) either, and their view was other brands (Dynaudio, Sonus faber, Proac) of speakers would make it easier to highlight the quality of the electronics. They did carry the older models, DBL's ,SBL's, Ibl's, Ariva's,  and much preferred them to the Ovators.

I always thought the Ovators to be excellent in what they did. Not everyones cuppa, I guess. And with a whole speaker factory at hand.... The decision is understandable.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

A question for those who have the Ovators : What is it that they do well in comparison to other brands (or types) of speakers ?

Any downsides ?

Hi Jan-Erik -

Back in the summer of 2011, I home demoed about a dozen speakers for my small (9.5'x12.5') listening room.  All posed challenges, but getting the 400s to sound good was pretty straight forward. I liked that they did not require a huge amount of back and side wall clearance, but it did take some time and patience to get the absolute best sound out of them. Small changes in position, and slight adjustments to toe-in were audible. But, in the end, locating their sweet spot was well worth the effort.

I think the 400's are relatively neutral, and ever slightly rolled off at both ends. In my view, this helps make them easy to listen to for longer periods of time. Also, being a sealed box helps them to be less likely to overwhelm smaller rooms with booming bass. But perhaps best of all (and not unlike my ESL 57's), the 400s deliver a very natural, cohesive sound. I have always assumed that this was attributable to the BMR driver eliminating the need for a crossover where our ears are most sensitive to it.

When I did my home demos, I eliminated from consideration a number of floorstanders because I was always aware of sound coming from the cabinets, ports, or from individual drivers. By contrast, the 400s did the "disappearing act" with ease.

We all know that speaker selection is a very personal. Our ears, brains, rooms and supporting electronics are all different. I feel very fortunate that the 400s were such a good fit for me. They erased my upgrade itch, and have given me many hours of great music. Even if Naim is exiting the Ovator business, I hope they will either build something new, or at least continue to influence Focal's new product development.

ATB.

Hook

Perhaps my own experience might add perspective to some of the other observations about Naim speakers.  

When I was looking for a new pair of speakers a couple of years ago I went to four 'official', each highly respected, Naim dealers.  One was a fan of the Ovator S400 (the model in the range most suitable for my listening room), the other three spoke quite unenthusiastically about the Naim speaker, and, although prepared to demo them, pointed me towards other designs.  In demos their own recommendations out-performed the S400's (according to my own ears and taste in speakers), though Adam Meredith, and others on this forum, suggested that was because the dealers were unprepared, or unable, to achieve optimum set up for the S400's.  That may well be true, but whatever the reason, the Naim speakers have not had universal support from the trade.

Christopher_M posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bloaty flabby bass seems to be all the rage these days, for some strange reason. 

I agree. Thing is Nigel, we are Generation Kan, with all that implies about Linn record players, NAP250s and dynamic, articulate bass.

Nowadays imaging and soundstaging seem to be at the forefront of what speaker buyers want, from speakers that stand in free-space. I generalise but you get the point.

Chris

Point well taken Chris, and I agree. To parallel along with you, the (SBL,SL2,NBL,IBL,DBL), and Briks are old School Classics unported speakers designed to be positioned close to the wall. Not sure about being unported, but sure about my Briks. However, Naim put the new kid on the block, the Ovators.

Why?  CB_- Olive_-Black Box_-DR, 3 decades of change, I would say, for the better!

The Evolving Naim Sound, a hybrid between Flat Earth, and Round Earth. Better spacing, imaging, along with lean & mean PRAT!

And the Ovators were suited to handle the Evolving Sound.

The Statement has set the stage for Naim's Evolving Sound, and Perhaps a team effort between Focal/Naim can pick up where Naim and the Ovators left off. 

 A Floaty Snaxo, designed to work with three way Speakers, Not just Naim's Speakers, but any Active Speakers!

Now that's how one capture The Market Share!

Time will tell!!!!

JMHO!

Allante93!

badlands posted:

dayjay posted:.  Most other forums and hifi fans I have heard discuss them seem to have a view that they are overpriced and that there are much better alternatives available for much less money. 

Others have said the exact same thing when it comes to their electronics too.

Perhaps, but the electronics sell and make a profit, which is fairly important for any company

Badlands, you appear to have moved away from Naim and gone to Cyrus?

Yes you are right Dynaudio, PMC, Sonus Faber and Proacs (and Naim intros I heard) are able to clearly show the "Naim sound" somehow I didn't quite hear that from the Ovators... Maybe the Ovator wasn't run in, but still..

dayjay posted:

badlands posted:

dayjay posted:.  Most other forums and hifi fans I have heard discuss them seem to have a view that they are overpriced and that there are much better alternatives available for much less money. 

Others have said the exact same thing when it comes to their electronics too.

Perhaps, but the electronics sell and make a profit, which is fairly important for any company

Naim electronics usually can be repaired and serviced long after sale, which gives new life to the boxes and leads to good value for money in the long run IMO.

Is it official. 

The new Naim Sound comes at a Price!

A Dred front and rear end, with a capable source.

Followed by the Full Loom! 

Statement of course!

552/252/282/272

500/300/250,  the 200 doesn't 009 etc...

On the low end! All Dred

 Ndx/Xps/272/250 = 4 Box + Loom

Loom = Source IC/XLR IC/ Speaker Cable

 Don't fool yourself Mega Bucks, just ask HH!

JMHO!

Allante93!

If it's true it's very sad for the staff who have worked many years on them to see their work relegated after a few years.

robert- posted:

Is it official. 

The lack of any comment on this thread from Naim would encourage the view it is.

Personally I'd be a bit sad if true, but pleased I got what I wanted while it was available.
Joining the many owning discontinued Naim speakers is no big deal for me, but sad for those that may have wanted the future choice.

DB.

I like to think that my S-400 were more expensive to build than buy... I really like them!

G

Darke Bear posted:

robert- posted:

Is it official. 

The lack of any comment on this thread from Naim would encourage the view it is.

Personally I'd be a bit sad if true, but pleased I got what I wanted while it was available.
Joining the many owning discontinued Naim speakers is no big deal for me, but sad for those that may have wanted the future choice.

DB.

Maybe I should count myself lucky that S800s would just be too big for our lounge!

analogmusic posted:

 

for me, Naim is one of the best kept secrets in hi-fi. it took me 15 years to get to known the brand 

 

it just occurred to me, that there is a certain limited capacity in the factory, and Naim cannot make more than a certain amount of kit each year in Salisbury. 

The Muso is another matter...

The problem is that it's no longer just Naim, It's Vervant Audio Group, and if what you're saying is true then Naim as you know it today may no longer exist tomorrow. If they move production East, they would be able to produce more product and increase profits, which when you are owned by an investment company profit IS the bottom line.

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

for me, Naim is one of the best kept secrets in hi-fi. it took me 15 years to get to known the brand 

 

it just occurred to me, that there is a certain limited capacity in the factory, and Naim cannot make more than a certain amount of kit each year in Salisbury. 

The Muso is another matter...

The problem is that it's no longer just Naim, It's Vervant Audio Group, and if what you're saying is true then Naim as you know it today may no longer exist tomorrow. If they move production East, they would be able to produce more product and increase profits, which when you are owned by an investment company profit IS the bottom line.

Once a universal panacea, Chinese manufacturing is no longer a guarantee of increased profitability as their economy adjusts in line with emerging global norms.

G

GraemeH posted:

Once a universal panacea, Chinese manufacturing is no longer a guarantee of increased profitability as their economy adjusts in line with emerging global norms.

G

The introduction of the Muso would seem to dispute that.

 If a NAP 300 could be made to the exact same standards for less and sell for the same money because it has the Naim logo on it, and you are able to make two to three times as many per year, that would be a hard reality to ignore.

If they move production East, they would be able to produce more product and increase profits, which when you are owned by an investment company profit IS the bottom line.

 

Surely that would be commercial suicide. Part of the appeal of a Naim product is that it's hand built in the UK. Take that away and you'd lose a lot of what Naim is as a brand. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bloaty flabby bass seems to be all the rage these days, for some strange reason. 

Some people just prefer no depth and limited bass response.

badlands posted:

GraemeH posted:

Once a universal panacea, Chinese manufacturing is no longer a guarantee of increased profitability as their economy adjusts in line with emerging global norms.

G

The introduction of the Muso would seem to dispute that.

 If a NAP 300 could be made to the exact same standards for less and sell for the same money because it has the Naim logo on it, and you are able to make two to three times as many per year, that would be a hard reality to ignore.

Lots of reports along the lines below from the Telegraph:

"More recently, manufacturing has moved into a highly technical and highly automated environment. This reduces the need for manual labour, which in turn reduces cost. These associated costs are still cheaper in China than they are in the UK or the US, but as many companies such as Apple and Google and Breffo manufacture with high automation, then the costs to produce become far more even between countries.
Add high quality materials, a highly skilled and educated workforce, low shipping cost and timings and fast efficient turnaround into the mix and manufacturing in the UK or the US becomes a no-brainer."

My own experience in China recently would support the above. No longer a guarantee of increased profitability.

G