ovators (S-400, 600, 800) production stopped

james n posted:

If they move production East, they would be able to produce more product and increase profits, which when you are owned by an investment company profit IS the bottom line.

 

.... Part of the appeal of a Naim product is that it's hand built in the UK. Take that away and you'd lose a lot of what Naim is as a brand. 

i tend to agree -- but may have to accept that commercial realities dictate how this turns out, one way or the other...

enjoy

ken

Massimo Bertola posted:

. I realised that it's not CD players or amps that makes Naim's own signature voice, but their loudspeakers, and that their loudspeakers have been their really groundbreaking designs, 

Completely disagree, In fact, one of the main reasons Naim came about was to prove that it was the amplifier, not the loudspeaker, that made the most significant difference to sound quality.  Julian Vereker's design of the NAP 200, NAC12 amplifier, though a very simple design was ground breaking at the time and what made the company  what it is today.  Naim electronics were always known in the industry this way....... If Naim is doing it right then everybody else is doing it wrong...... The Naim sound, as you know it, has always been quite unique,  and definitely set Naim apart from everybody else. Up until the Statement that is, which is definitely a different direction sonically and more "main stream" sounding than previous Naim amplifiers.

The speakers may be an extension of the Naim sound but they definitely did not define that sound, if that was the case, I believe more people would  be attracted to their speakers.

badlands posted:

The speakers may be an extension of the Naim sound but they definitely did not define that sound...

That was what I was trying to say.

To be fair I think the black boxes are more mainstream than their predecessors.  Don't get me wrong, I think they are an improvement.  That being said I have always liked most Naim loudspeakers I have heard.  I really don't fully understand their failure to gain traction among the Naim faithful.

I agree with badlands

first time I heard naim, I never heard of the brand, was looking for speakers which were B&W

so my iPod analog out goes into this black box into the b&w 805

and I'm hooked. Then the dealer tells me that I have to buy this expensive amplifier called naim to get this sound at home

so it was the amp (202/200) for me that sounded unlike anything I ever heard before

Massimo Bertola posted:

The principle of mechanical suppression of interfering vibrations is evident in the wobbly sockets of amps and in the complex design of the preamps' boards, but it's the very chore and soul of the design of close to all their loudspeakers. I feel that abandoning speakers Naim is really abandoning its true soul...

I would say that the core and soul lie more in exploring and refining, in whichever area of music reproduction Naim chooses. Suppression of vibration is one (but a big one).

(With my chrysotile coat on) I think that speaker design presents the greatest number of opportunities to innovate, explore and refine a music reproduction technology. Does losing such a rich playground for designers at Naim signify abandoning its soul ? I would like to think that the creative energy will be directed elsewhere. But where will the leading edge of Naim sound go now ? 

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

badlands posted:

The speakers may be an extension of the Naim sound but they definitely did not define that sound...

That was what I was trying to say.

Well, I think you gentleman got it figured out. So  Naims reference Speaker was an extension of the evolving Naim Sound.

So Naim's R&D put in countless hours into their    Reference Speaker to extend the Naim Sound.

Hence, Ovators S -400,600, and 800 were designed and manufactured to complement Naims electronics. 

Mission acomplished, at the expense of overall sales. Perhaps Steve Crowe understood this going into the aquisition.

“For future success, the key point is that there is no future for a speaker or electronic company alone,” says Jacques Mahul, founder and chairman Focal & Co. “Partnership and collaboration are the way forward both in terms of investment and R&D. Working together means you can go more quickly and successfully whilst remaining true to the respective brands.”

Time will tell!!!!

Active Speakers!

Allante!

well the message is clear, whoever wants Ovators needs to order them now.

Posted by Analog:

"A Company cannot be the best at everything, because it eventually ends up being average at everything, due to allocation of resources which are not able to cope.

it is always better for companies to focus on what they best at.

Indeed apple do state, "what we choose not to make, is as important as what we choose to make"

It is a sensible decision and I look forward to better and newer products from Naim.

 After all how many speaker companies do you know, that are trying to make amplifiers, streamers and DACS?""

Point on Analog!

I'm not sure I agree.  While Naim has made superb sources and amps that have been more than good enough to shine in a variety of mixed brand systems, for me the greatest strength of Naim has been its system approach - i.e. Naim from source to speaker and everything in between. In performance terms, the Naim system is usually more than the sum of its parts. Getting it right here a means you get a synergy that is rarely if ever achieved through mixing and matching.  You also get a system that you know has been designed, built and honed by some very smart people who are truly passionate about music.  So in a sense, Naim are best at everything because you need everything to make up a system.

I am always very keen to hear what Richard Dane has to say as I have learnt a lot.

But in terms of turntables, Naim has never made any (other than Aro) and left this to Linn?

yes the Stageline and Superline are there, but with an LP12 fronted system, it isn't an all Naim system anymore?

I easily agree with Richard; I may simply be allowing myself to look at things from the opposite end: no one has conceived louspeaker system design the way Naim did, and while some have started making electronics referring to Naim ones, nobody that I know of makes speaker systems the way Naim did.

If I think of Naim I 'see' DIN connections, power supplies, integral approach to sound and I realise that from a given moment on I simply bought Naim speakers and chose the best amps to drive them that I could, or would, afford.

I have owned four pairs of n-Sats, two pairs of SBLs, S-400s, Arivas and have brought Allaes and Credo home for tests and tentative purchase, so I think I can say that from 2006 on I have approached - and loved - Naim from the 'wrong' side.

Frank F posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I'm not sure I agree.  While Naim has made superb sources and amps that have been more than good enough to shine in a variety of mixed brand systems, for me the greatest strength of Naim has been its system approach - i.e. Naim from source to speaker and everything in between. In performance terms, the Naim system is usually more than the sum of its parts. Getting it right here a means you get a synergy that is rarely if ever achieved through mixing and matching.  You also get a system that you know has been designed, built and honed by some very smart people who are truly passionate about music.  So in a sense, Naim are best at everything because you need everything to make up a system.

So the various decisions to stop making DBLs, SBLs, SL2s, NBLs and Ovators are not logical and do not serve the customers??

FF

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Richard +1

On the radio yesterday morning  I heard someone say, 'look after the small things and the whole will look after itself'. I couldn't help thinking how valuable and widely applicable that was.

Obviously there's nothing small about Naim speakers or the thinking behind them.

C.

Per Richard's post above, I'd also add that with Naim you get an enduring product that is serviceable and can be reasonably expected to be useful for decades. There's no built-in obsolescence. Weigh that versus an Apple product and their "sensibilities".

well for an "all naim" sound - Muso and Muso QB !

Frank F posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I'm not sure I agree.  While Naim has made superb sources and amps that have been more than good enough to shine in a variety of mixed brand systems, for me the greatest strength of Naim has been its system approach - i.e. Naim from source to speaker and everything in between. In performance terms, the Naim system is usually more than the sum of its parts. Getting it right here a means you get a synergy that is rarely if ever achieved through mixing and matching.  You also get a system that you know has been designed, built and honed by some very smart people who are truly passionate about music.  So in a sense, Naim are best at everything because you need everything to make up a system.

So the various decisions to stop making DBLs, SBLs, SL2s, NBLs and Ovators are not logical and do not serve the customers??

FF

Frank, not being privy to the numbers I couldn't say for certain what is logical or not.  However, as to the question of serving the customers, considering how long Naim have persevered with their speakers against an overwhelming tide of indifference (and in some cases outright hostility) outside of a small hardcore clientele, then I think they're owed a break here.  

With an eye towards your post above HH, perhaps we should look towards the new Focal Sopra range or a similar future Focal speaker designed with Naim's input as maybe better serving a greater cross-section of potential customers?

Hungryhalibut posted:

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Unless Naim and Focal develop a new 'Naim speaker' together.

Massimo Bertola posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Unless Naim and Focal develop a new 'Naim speaker' together.

Ops, I hadn't read Richard's reply. I thought that Sopra was a very Naim-ish name for a loudspeaker..

I hadn't heard that Naim folks had input on the sopra speakers. But my experience of them with Naim electronics was pretty positive. Interesting. 

I'll have to stop referring to them as the Sapros. 

Let's hope so, Richard. The trouble is that the Sopra 2 is bloomin' massive. Nearly two feet deep and then a foot behind, which means that the fronts would be three feet from the wall, whereas the fronts of my SL2s can't be more than 15" out. My house is certainly not big enough to accommodate the Sopras, good as they may be. Even the Sopra 1 is rather chunky, and those massive black stands, ugh! I'm just glad I found my speakers last year. They may be old, unloved and misunderstood by most, but I think they are rather good. 

Let's not be negative though - Naim have bought out some wonderful new stuff recently - the 272 is a work of genius that gives virtually as much performance as other much more expensive bits, the DR amp upgrade is fantastic and the Super Lumina leads are exceptional. 

With all that space freed up in the factory, there's room for a Forum party. 

The aesthetics of many modern speakers would be a big issue for me-not just the physical size but the option of near wall placement. Unless a speaker was very small and neat I would simple not choose to have one out in the room, and neither would my wife. The Focus Sopra look appalling in my view-would not have one anywhere near our home!

What other manufacturers have looked at closed box designs which allow such close-to-the-wall positioning other than Naim? Even Ovators needed a bit of space behind them I believe.

Shahinian come to mind as a bit of a niche option.

Anyway I'm hoping my shortly arriving SL2's keep my going for many years.

Ooh, the excitement mounts...

connon price posted:

I hadn't heard that Naim folks had input on the sopra speakers. But my experience of them with Naim electronics was pretty positive. Interesting. 

I'll have to stop referring to them as the Sapros. 

Apologies Connon, I don't know the extent of Naim's input on the Sopra, if any at all, rather it was an indication of how things could go in the future.  I had to go and tend to something urgently mid post edit, as it didn't read quite the way I wanted it to.

Massimo Bertola posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Unless Naim and Focal develop a new 'Naim speaker' together.

I would think they already are doing this...