ovators (S-400, 600, 800) production stopped

Sopra sounds like  a model of an old Toyota car model and we know what happen to them. That really puts me off for starters...

I was always a bit mystified that so many people didn't like Naim speakers, but the earlier ones especially do have to be set up and placed carefully, and maybe that's been the problem. I have owned IBLs, Credos, SBLs and for the last four years SL2s. I have been very happy with all of them, but particularly the SL2s, which give me enormous musical satisfaction in my 500 series system and run actively. When my dealer (who used to sell SL2s when they were current)  came for a listen, he said he'd 'never heard SL2s sound that good'. Another dealer, from whom I bought one of my 500 amps, said that all the speakers he sold were very good, but when he really wanted to listen to a thoroughly musical performance, he always came back to the SL2s. 

Richard Dane posted:

I'm not sure I agree.  While Naim has made superb sources and amps that have been more than good enough to shine in a variety of mixed brand systems, for me the greatest strength of Naim has been its system approach - i.e. Naim from source to speaker and everything in between. In performance terms, the Naim system is usually more than the sum of its parts. Getting it right here a means you get a synergy that is rarely if ever achieved through mixing and matching.  You also get a system that you know has been designed, built and honed by some very smart people who are truly passionate about music.  So in a sense, Naim are best at everything because you need everything to make up a system.

Absolutely true! According to someone experience with full Naim systems, even tiny changes like Fraim stack order or mains optimization can significantly influence  the final performance.  The oppotunity to build  a full Naim chain  source to loudspeakerd is a real convenience.

DaveBk posted:

 

I have no idea whether active Sopras or Scalas will ever emerge - depends on market demand I guess, but the latest passive combinations are breathtaking.

Dave.

 

 

We could experiment and see if we could find a way to activate your Scala V2s if you're up for the challenge Dave.  I'm sure I could dig up a soldering iron and screwdriver

Mike Kent posted:

I was always a bit mystified that so many people didn't like Naim speakers, but the earlier ones especially do have to be set up and placed carefully, and maybe that's been the problem. I have owned IBLs, Credos, SBLs and for the last four years SL2s. I have been very happy with all of them, but particularly the SL2s, which give me enormous musical satisfaction in my 500 series system and run actively. When my dealer (who used to sell SL2s when they were current)  came for a listen, he said he'd 'never heard SL2s sound that good'. Another dealer, from whom I bought one of my 500 amps, said that all the speakers he sold were very good, but when he really wanted to listen to a thoroughly musical performance, he always came back to the SL2s. 

On a recent conversation with the previous Italian Naim distributor, was told that most retailers were not keen enough to demo and properly set up set up Naim speakers. Usually once a pair of them was sold they didn't replace with another one.  A little more convinction from them and Naim itself would helped.

Regards

Roberto

It wouldn't be a big deal for Focal to design modern replacement drivers that would be miles ahead of the ones found in old Naim Loudspeakers. How about a SBL with a Beryllium inverted dome tweeter and a ''W'' Power Flower woofer 

Graham Clarke posted:

DaveBk posted:

 

I have no idea whether active Sopras or Scalas will ever emerge - depends on market demand I guess, but the latest passive combinations are breathtaking.

Dave.

We could experiment and see if we could find a way to activate your Scala V2s if you're up for the challenge Dave.  I'm sure I could dig up a soldering iron and screwdriver

That's the Spirit Graham!

“For future success, the key point is that there is no future for a speaker or electronic company alone,” says Jacques Mahul, founder and chairman Focal & Co. “Partnership and collaboration are the way forward both in terms of investment and R&D. Working together means you can go more quickly and successfully whilst remaining true to the respective brands.”

To Independent Firms working together to satisfy the customers.

Kind of reminds me of how it all started!

Linn & Naim!

I wonder are those guys still producing Amps and TT's?

Allante!

Tony2011 posted:

Sopra sounds like  a model of an old Toyota car model and we know what happen to them. That really puts me off for starters...

Tony...Sopra...no?  

It seems from many comments that Active systems "Naim style" require too many boxes and cables. I'm sure Naim are/were aware of this. Is it not beyond reason that before the Focal/Naim merger Naim may have considered producing an active integrated speaker much like ATC. Is it also not beyond reason we may see a joint Focal/Naim integrated active speaker system in future.?

Just speculating.

Exaktly!

Hook posted:

Tony2011 posted:

Sopra sounds like an old Toyota car model and we know what happened to them. That really puts me off for starters...

Tony...Sopra...no?  

You talking to me...?

Sopra is a term used in musical notation meaning 'above' (it's the Italian word for above) and is used to either indicate a fingering (sopra una corda - played on one string) or for example in piano music to indicate when crossing one hand over the other, hence 'above'. 

That's where the name comes from.

Frank.

Frank Abela posted:

Sopra is a term used in musical notation meaning 'above' (it's the Italian word for above) and is used to either indicate a fingering (sopra una corda - played on one string) or for example in piano music to indicate when crossing one hand over the other, hence 'above'. 

That's where the name comes from.

Frank.

Thought the French being French would have used their own terminology. 

Hungryhalibut posted

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Hmm, the Ovators were such a totally different sound and design to your beloved SL2's and all previous Naim speakers. Then which one is it that would have the most synergy with Naim electronics? Because if one is "right" the other is surely wrong

Frank Abela posted:

Sopra is a term used in musical notation meaning 'above' (it's the Italian word for above) and is used to either indicate a fingering (sopra una corda - played on one string) or for example in piano music to indicate when crossing one hand over the other, hence 'above'. 

That's where the name comes from.

Frank.

Not to mention 'ottava sopra' which means one octave higher, and – ça va sans dire – soprano.

M

badlands posted:

Hmm, the Ovators were such a totally different sound and design to your beloved SL2's and all previous Naim speakers. Then which one is it that would have the most synergy with Naim electronics? Because if one is "right" the other is surly wrong.

 

We'll, I'm not sure right, and wrong is the best way to describe subtle changes.

And in the end as you say, the Speakers are an extension of the evolving Naim Sound, which is the final link in the listening chain.

So if one is comfortable, and enjoys the performance of their speakers, the Dred technologies, merely  changes the performance in the direction of the evolving Naim Sound.

The Ovators are just suited to the new Naim Sound, which means better synergy with the Dred technologies.

CB_-Olive_-Blk Boxes_-Dred Blk Boxes

Flat Earth_- hybrids_-Round Earth

The New Naim Sound is evolving towards the right!

Example: 

552/500/Ovators

Statement/Ovators

I'd suspect the latter to lean towards the right, in respect to imagery, and depth of field, but retaining a fast hard hitting bass with that Flat Earth PRAT!

Just my humble opinions and thoughts!

Allante!

Even if the Focals are any good, I much prefer the design of the Ovators, although those 'colander' grilles are not the most refined aesthetic for Valhalla.

To the members of this forum who have consistently bad mouthed the Focal Sopra line, only to find out that Naim had direct input in their design, all of a sudden change their views and now agree they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

How great that would be to finally prove the power of suggestion.

badlands posted:

To the members of this forum who have consistently bad mouthed the Focal Sopra line, only to find out that Naim had direct input in their design, all of a sudden change their views and now agree they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

How great that would be to finally prove the power of suggestion.

I don't think that is at all true that people changed their tune. If the forum shows anything is that even if the speakers are Naim's they have more detractors than supporters. Both Naim and Focal speakers are, as I have said, fairly divisive. You either love em or hate em (or in the case of SBLs have grudging respect but would still never have bought them).

Many (in fact nearly all) of the Naim fans on the forum have non Naim in their systems simply because they are capable of forming their own opinion and choosing for themselves.

If someone never got on well with Focal but is interested to see how the Focal sound may have changed with new R&D insight from another company - I don't see that as a problem or a change of tune. In fact, I see that as having an open mind to go back and reconsider something instead of writing it off for good.

Massimo Bertola posted:

I have owned four pairs of n-Sats, two pairs of SBLs, S-400s, Arivas and have brought Allaes and Credo home for tests and tentative purchase, so I think I can say that from 2006 on I have approached - and loved - Naim from the 'wrong' side.

 

Massimo, so in 10 years you went through 10 pairs of speakers because you were not happy with their sound ? Did the system stay the same ?

Richard, in terms of 'end to end' it sounds like you are talking of a wall garden, like the folks at Apple !  Even they realize they can't do everything, hence the stores have software and products by third parties... like Naim !

badlands posted:

Hungryhalibut posted

And taking that to its conclusion, we will never get a fully synergistic Naim system again and therefore never hear the full potential of Naim electronics. Hmm. 

Hmm, the Ovators were such a totally different sound and design to your beloved SL2's and all previous Naim speakers. Then which one is it that would have the most synergy with Naim electronics? Because if one is "right" the other is surely wrong

Badlands,

All Naim designed and produced loudspeakers need not be the identical, or even very similar, to be valid as 'fully synergistic' as I see it. 

"Because if one is "right" the other is surely wrong" - is this a lens you look at the world through or are you teasing the good people of this forum?

Allante93 posted: 

So if one is comfortable, and enjoys the performance of their speakers, the Dred technologies, merely  changes the performance in the direction of the evolving Naim Sound.

The Ovators are just suited to the new Naim Sound, which means better synergy with the Dred technologies.

 

Consider the Ovators Judged.

Guy007 posted:

Massimo, so in 10 years you went through 10 pairs of speakers because you were not happy with their sound ? Did the system stay the same ?

 

Guy,

no, the system didn't remain the same but it was always Naim. I think that what I was not happy with was really my own approach to home reproduction: I can't live without a system but I cannot be entirely happy with one – just like what Socrates said about women...

In the end, I had to choose and I opted for SBLs again, because I found an excellent bargain. I believe that most of those who are called 'audiophiles' change much, and are as restless as I have been; and if I will stay with my system for some time, now, it will be due to tiredness, wear: the exhaustion of any further will to mess with boxes, placements, moves, cables, couriers, experiments...

Best

M

Wonder why naim don't inform members of the forum as to what's happening with their speaker range :~\

they are the greatest thing since sliced bread

a) I don't like sliced bread, but I do like Ovators

b) I don't feel that much emotional attachment to inanimate objects

c) Naim/Focal alliance: be it synchronicity or synergy, it's saved our Naimite bacon (on rounds of artisanal baguette).