Streaming Diversity - Is it time for a Mac Mini?

I'm running a macmini apart from Aurender and Aries and I'm totally happy with the results! Some tips (so if I had to do it again:-)) :

1) macmini with SSD running OS...in your case: SSD (internal) and NAS (music store)- so you can work with a "smaller" SSD (256 GB is ok, I have 1TB SSD internally....).

2) use the USB output- but DON't upgrade to the latest version of MAC OS (El Capitan)...it causes some problems with USB- stay one release away from it:-)

2a) if you DAC doesn't support USB go with M2Tech or a converter (USB to SPDIF/Coax)...again think about 2)! El Capitan....

3) use jitterbug or similar plugs (cost 30-50bucks)

4) test roon- and I promise, you'll love it - on top of roon

5) if you'll stick with itunes, go with Audirvana (control itunes-remote, music plays with Audirvana) or you can even go with Audirvana native means the library controlling and playing without any other SW

6) get a Tellurium digital cabel....

 7) Audirvana integrated Qobuz

cheers Ralf

sorry for typos- i'm on train:-)

Thanks, Ralf, although I suspect not all of your recommendations are relevant for someone like me, who is happy enough with Naim solutions and just wants streaming flexibility. Presumably the USB output plugs into my SU ok? Anyone?

macmini---usb----su,,,,flexible, good-sound, open...and roon;-) go for it!

Goon525 posted:

Thanks, Ralf, although I suspect not all of your recommendations are relevant for someone like me, who is happy enough with Naim solutions and just wants streaming flexibility. Presumably the USB output plugs into my SU ok? Anyone?

No, USB to SU won't work, You'll need a spdif converter or use its optical out (presuming the latest MAC mini has optical out)

SJB

I'm running a Mac Mini with Audirvana into a Hugo.  The sound is fantastic and there is a great remote control app for Audirvana that runs on the I pad.  For your purposes it's worth noting that Audirana has Qobuz integrated into it although at present there is only some remote control over playlists and playback.  It's also pretty easy to upgrade an IPad for reasonable cost to further improve the sound.  I'd recommend an iPad with as much memory as possible although I bought mine to compare it to my Qute2 as a transport and didn't want to risk too much money and bought the latest basic version which works fine.  It's also rather excellent at streaming video!

That seems like a rather expensive solution - Mac Mini just to access one streaming service...

You already have a NAS to store your music library, so wouldn't adding a Mac be a bit OTT?

Goon525 posted:

Impressed by the quality of Naim's integration of Tidal into their streamers (I'm using an SU), I cancelled my Qobuz subscription and switched to Tidal. Hitherto, I'd been using the rather Heath Robinson method of driving Qobuz via an iPad and an Apple TV into the SU. It worked, but is ultimately a bit limited in SQ terms (and is absolutely limited to 44.1/16 - which is going to be bettered this year by several streaming companies).

...

I have no experience with mac minis and Qobuz but, considering that you are not primarily interested in integrating Qobuz in your current streaming setup, I would start from the application that you find most appealing for streaming Qobuz contents.

If you are happy with the way your iPad application gives you access to Qobuz, for instance, just plug something like a Meridian Explorer (ME) into its lightning port (via camera connection kit) and connec to to the SU via optical. That should support up to 24/192 and give you a straightforward solution for about 200 EUR. I have not tried this solution with an iPad but with a Pixel C it works out of the box. I am pretty sure that a ME works with iPads as well, at least a Mojo does, see http://www.moon-audio.com/usb/chord-mojo.html. With a Mojo, you could go straight to the analog input of your SU. The advantage of a tablet-based approach is that (perhaps with a tablet a bit larger than the iPad mini) you could also watch concerts (e.g. from the Digital Concert Hall) on the tablet and enjoy the sound through your Naim system. The disadvantage is that you would have a physical connection between your tablet and the SU (Supra makes very flexible and decent optical cables for a reasonable price). If you prefer the way a iOS application gives you access to Qobuz, go for the mac mini. If you like more the way a Windows application gives you access to Qobuz, go for a fit-PC4. If you know of a Linux application that gives you access to Qobuz and that you particularly like, a Raspberry Pi with a USB to SPDIF converter should be fine.

In a nutshell: I would start by selecting the application/OS and then think about the hardware in a second step.

If you can find a s/h Meridian Explorer Mk 1 (!!!!), it'll do the trick of linking a Mac Mini USB to your SU using a mini plug to to to toslink and sounds good. Depending on your Mac Mini model, it may have a SPDIF mini plug out on the rear panel adjacent to the USB ports, certainly OK to pilot the concept with - use the same lead, there's a reasonably priced Optichord. Works for me.

Once you've got it working, there's loads of DAC's, optical and copper cables and Mac replaying software that can access your iTunes library - try-before-you-buy till you get a solution you like to listen to. 

Trap alert!! If you plan on running the Mac Mini headless, I.e. No monitor, keyboard, or mouse, Google 'Mac Mini headless setup' and follow the instructions very carefully, reading one or two pages ahead BEFORE hitting return, or clicking. You'll only get one go and the default settings are for NO remote access so when the setup finishes you'll be locked out and have to go find keyboard, etc. to fix it - voice of experience �� At least the Mac Mini has an hdmi out so you can plug it into a telly and see what's going on. Once running headless I recommend investing in Apple Remote Desktop - MUCH more reliable than screen sharing.

However, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't an IOS app to run the Mac, streaming service IOS apps may see the Mac server via WiFi and you could redirect the audio output to the optical out or USB dac, but you'll have to do that from another computer.

Good luck,

Regards,

John

Why not just try the Qobuz app on the iPad and plug the lead from the Lightning port into the USB port on the Superuniti?

I'm grateful to those of you who have contributed, many with interesting ideas. But I note no one seems to be doing what I'm contemplating! Incidentally, whilst I would probably start with Qobuz, I want the flexibility to shift - so basing all my decisions on their current app would not be appropriate. One or two have suggested hard-wired solutions running from my iPad to the SU - that would be significantly inelegant, since my listening seat is probably about 13 feet (say 4 m) away. I really did hope that someone would be doing something along the lines I propose, WITH a Naim streamer.

As far as I can see a Mac with Audirvana on it wil do everything you are looking to do, including run headless with Qobuz, or any other service for that matter.  If you want to use it with a Naim streamer though I would imagine you would need to use the streamer as a dac for the Mac which I assume you can do?

Well, I'd have thought so - but I'd appreciate confirmation from someone doing that.

Hi goon -

I have an SU and Tidal (and Spotify), plus a Mac mini connected via TOSLink (and a Synology NAS for streaming local content). Can't comment on Qobuz (I'm in Canada) but I've enjoyed the sound of various things coming in on the optical input. In this config, the SU is definitely acting as the DAC for the optical digital out from the mini. I am away now, but could try the Tidal app through the mini as a comparison point if that is of interest. I don't run Audirvana or anything fancy (and often it's for audio with films or Netflix or whatever), but the multimedia convenience is great and it's naim sound rather than whatever else. Also sounds great when playing FLAC (you need an app) or ALAC or WAV files directly from the mini (either from iTunes or any of the home recording apps). Easy to run headless using VNC (free client, attaches to native desktop sharing server) on your iPad - offers both mouse and an on-screen keyboard.

Also agree with others who suggest trying the rather excellent iPod / iPhone / iPad native USB input. I used that a lot with my Qute - but note you must start your streaming on the screen, since the app or remote only gives access to the local stored content. At least that way you could test the USB solution running the Tidal app (by hand) on your iPad. Not sure off the top of my head what max rates this will give if your ultimate goal is beyond CD quality, but worth exploring. 

Hope this helps.

Regards alan 

Do I understand correctly that you're thinking of the MM purely as a Qubuz source, feeding into your Naim streamer? If so, echoing DAYJAY,  i think that is missing a trick, as Audirvana on MM as streamer can give better SQ than Naim streamers, at least it does through a Hugo, though something is needed to stop the electrical noise from MM affecting SQ: I use an inexpensive USB/SPDIF isolator/convertor, the Gustard U12.  (My experience in SQ wise: ND5XS+XP5XS < ND5XS as streamer+Hugo DAC < Mac Mini/Audirvana + Gustard U12 + Hugo.  (And significant cost difference.) Other people have reported similarly against NDX.

From a different angle, someone mentioned a trap alert about running MM headless. You can control MM from any other computer, or from ipad or smartphone (though latter screen may be limiting), using free VNC software, whereby you have full control from the other device, seeing the MM display on that other device (which can be zoomed at least on ipad and iphone)   - so you can download or set up softwre, change MM settings etc without difficulty.

I'm using a toslink cable from the optical out of my MacBook Pro to play Roon through the SU.  I can't hear a difference in playing Tidal from Roon versus streaming Tidal over the wired ethernet connection using the Naim app.  Except, no dropouts via Roon.  I'm strongly considering getting a Mac Mini to run Roon, so this is an interesting thread.

Some very helpful answers overnight, thank you. Does anyone know definitively about digital ouput(s) on the current range of Mac minis, and which input to use on SU?

1 x combined analogue/digital (optical) 3.5mm jack

1 x HDMI

3 x USB3

Hope that helps,

KR, J

I would recommend optical only - this way you don't have a galvanic connection between a very noisy computer and your ultra high-fidelity streamer.

I use the SU 's digital 3 input with a QED mini toslink to toslink cable

Goon525 posted:

I'm grateful to those of you who have contributed, many with interesting ideas. But I note no one seems to be doing what I'm contemplating! Incidentally, whilst I would probably start with Qobuz, I want the flexibility to shift - so basing all my decisions on their current app would not be appropriate. One or two have suggested hard-wired solutions running from my iPad to the SU - that would be significantly inelegant, since my listening seat is probably about 13 feet (say 4 m) away. I really did hope that someone would be doing something along the lines I propose, WITH a Naim streamer.

If you do not want to use your iPad as a renderer (which would requite a USB to optical conversion and an hard-wired connection to the SU), it seems that you are left with the alternative of setting up a renderer that supports Qobuz (since your SU doesn't) and use your iPad to run a control point. As I mentioned, I am pretty sure that you can do this on a Mac mini but I have no first hand experience with iOS-based solutions.

An alternative approach would be to install Bubble UPnP server on you NAS or whatever computer on your LAN. This allows you to turn any UPnP renderer in your LAN into an OpenHome renderer, see http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/. That should apply also to your SU but, again, I have not first-hand experience with using Bubble UPnP Server to turn Naim renderers into OpenHome renderers. I run a Bubble UPnP Server instance on a Raspberry Pi to turn a Chromecast Audio into an OpenHome renderer, and this works flawlessly, though. Once you have your SU comply with the OpenHome standard, you will be able to control it with any OpenHome control point: Linn Kinsky, Linn Kazoo, Lumin (iOS + Android) and, of course, Bubble UPnP (only Android, unfortunately). At this point, you should be able to stream Qobuz contents from your Bubble UPnP control point to your SU, see  http://www.computeraudiophile....eupnp-android-25075/. Again, I have not tested this approach myself. Of course, you will need a decent wireless infrastructure to stream 24/192 from your Android device to the SU. One obvious advantage of this approach is that it would allow you to exploit your current hardware (assuming you have an Android device around) without the need of setting up and maintaining new devices. Another advantage is that you can try it at zero costs and, in about half an hour.

Auralic Aries mini - 400 quid, Qobuz, Tidal and Roon intergration, stream from your NAS or install your own hard drive, internet radio, Bluetooth, Airplay. Built in dac or vatious outputs with dedicated iphone and ipad app. An absolute steal.

That's a really interesting suggestion, Hannoy63. It does look like a product that does what I want for now. An amazing deal for the price, though much of what it offers is duplicating what the SU does anyway. One question I have - if I prefer the sound of my Naim DAC in the SU, what's the connectivity for high res going to be like from the Auralic? Looks like I can't use USB for this?

The digital audio outputs include Coaxial and Toslink with maximum supported sampling rate up to 24Bit/192k.

hannoy63 posted:

Auralic Aries mini - 400 quid, Qobuz, Tidal and Roon intergration, stream from your NAS or install your own hard drive, internet radio, Bluetooth, Airplay. Built in dac or vatious outputs with dedicated iphone and ipad app. An absolute steal.

I'm not sure it does integrate with Roon except via an AirPlay (Redbook resolution) connection.