Tidal streaming over satellite connection to NAC-N272
Posted by: Atherton on 04 March 2016
Hi,
Is anyone out there successfully streaming Tidal Hifi using a satellite internet connection? My NAC-N272 simply stops playing after anything from a couple of minutes upwards, and it's then necessary to re-start the track.
It's not a line speed issue, as the line is running at 20gb and the 272 is direct connected to the router. My supplier mentioned latency as a possible cause, but I have no problem playing Tidal Hifi on other streaming devices.
Thanks.
Hi - as I have said several times on the forum - streaming audio with small TCP receive buffers such on our Naim streamers requires a relatively low two way latency (round trip delay) - the bandwidth itself is mostly irrelevant unless its so small there is significant queuing. I am afraid most Satellite services just cant do that - because the speed of light to and from the geo stationary satellite is the limiting factor and typically you see 600mS round trip delay just for the satellite access network. That coupled with the current latency challenges with the Tidal service itself - the chances of success will be limited.
The best chance of success with a Satellite link IMO will be to spool the streams on an intermediary server with very large receive windows - but I know of no consumer device that would do this - and commercial optimisers such as from Akami would need to be tested to interwork with Tidal first in my opinion before they could be assured.
The Tidal app might fare better - it appears to spool to a local file and plays back from that - you could use Airplay or the USB out from an iOS device to play Tidal perhaps?
Simon
Simon,
Thank you for your helpful reply. I did search the forum for information on this subject first but didn't find the posts you refer to.
Is there something different in the way Tidal streams its data compared to other sources? For example, I don't experience any issues streaming hi-res internet radio to the NAC (or, indeed, BBC i-Player to my TV) over the same connection. If so, is this something that you think might be addressed in the future? I have also contacted Tidal on this matter, and await their reply.
There is light at the end of the tunnel, as superfast broadband is planned for my area (one day!). In the mean time I can use Spotify without problems, but the drop in sound quality compared to Tidal Hifi is disappointingly huge.
Thanks,
Richard
Richard, yes I struggle with the search on this forum sometimes.. to your point, no there is nothing special about Tidal that I have seen at the TCP level - however it appears it does get bursts of business and corresponding increased latency from time to time- not least the latency back to the Tidal servers. This can vary from Tidal media server to server - tracks are streamed from different servers no doubt to optimise load on the Tidal server end. This coupled with the relatively small TCP windows (in my opinion) used by the Naim streamers can cause the issues. Naim I know are still working through a more effective firmware and have optimised their TCP/IP stack to make the software latency at least as small as possible to help things - this should help with SQ too through reduced streamer processing noise.
The thought that comes to mind is a quart in a pint pot - but I don't want to be unfair.. I suspect if Naim had increased the streaming resources available in the current architecture then SQ might have been unduly affected.
Regarding bandwidth and VDSL/Superfast - bandwidth doesn't really affect things too much unless its not sufficient such that noticeable queuing occurs to and from the internet - its mostly about latency..
BTW I do see these latency issues occurring from time with web radio - certainly the higher bandwidth radio - you see the buffer cycling on the streamer. It has improved though on the latest firmwares
Simon