Netflix and Naim streamer conflict
Posted by: Pezetas on 07 March 2016
Hi,
I have come across something very strange, and I can't seem to find any explanation to it wherever I look. So I thought I'd post here and see if anyone has had any similar experience.
To give some background I have a fiber connection 100/10Mbps. To start with there is a CPE switch supplied by the operator of the net. This device it standard and makes sure I get an IP-signal. I have a Apple airport extreme router connected to this and this is set to distribute wireless signals to iPad, iPhone, a few computers in my home. Connected via cable from this router (airport extreme) is also my Naim NAC-N 172 XS streamer. Also connected via cable to the router is my Synology NAS with ripped music.
I have been using this setup for a couple of years and everything has been working just fine.
Now to the problem. Every time I start the Netflix app on either my iPhone 6 or the iPad it shuts down the connection of my Naim streamer. It doesn't matter if I'm listening to local music on my NAS or Radio or Tidal. I just shuts down instantly when I start the app, even though I'm not even streaming any movie yet. And it only happens with IOS devices. If I go to Netflix on my macbook pro or any other computer I can watch movies and still listen to music on the Naim streamer. There is some sort of conflict there. No other app on my IOS devices causes this behavior, I even have other video streaming services like Viaplay (viasat player) and that works fine.
I tried calling Netflix support although I knew that would be a long shot. No help there, they thought there was something with the apple router so their advice was to call Apple support. I have tried with another Apple Time Capsule, which is basically a similar router but with a backup hard drive included in it. Same thing! I'm guessing there must be some setting that I'm not familiar with in the router.
Lately I've been using TIDAL straight on the streamer a lot and I like it very much. Until someone in the household starts looking at a movie on Netflix. As a workaround I then fire up my Mac mini that is connected to the streamer and I play Tidal on that computer through Naim instead. The mac mini does not shut down if someone else on the network is watching Netflix. But it's more convenient using the onboard Tidal service in the Naim streamer of course.
I have tried connecting the Naim streamer both wireless and as I usually have it, wired.
Any suggestions are most welcome. :-)
Regards,
Per
Posted on: 07 March 2016 by Mike-B
Try searching www, there are a lot of reports of Netflix shutting down other devices. Pipelight & Silverlight seem to be suspects in many cases.
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Yes - sounds a bug with the Netflix app. I would not use it until they fix the issue, sounds potentially dangerous dependant on what you sue your home network for from your iOS device. It might be worth reporting to Apple - as they may temporarily remove the Netflix app from the App Store if it is do with a big with it until resolved, especially as it appears to be corrupting your Apple router, My guess is the Netflix app is causing issues with NAT-PMP functionality on the apple router,
Simon
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Pezetas
Thanks for your answers! By the sound of it there's nothing I can do then?! I'll report it in to Apple and see what happens. I haven't been able to find any other information about it when googling, which is a bit strange to me. I mean, there should be quite a few people that has naim gear and using netflix. But maybe my googling skills aren't up to standard. ;-) Thanks guys!
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Trevor Wilson
hi all, the issues has been formally reported to Netflix technical support with supporting documentation on the subject. They have not yet given us a timescale for resolution, only an intention it be fixed soon
Trevor
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Pezetas
That's good to hear, thanks Trevor.
//Per
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Mike-B
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Pezetas
There you go Mike! It happened to other people too then, I was just too specific in my search. :-) Thanks for your help.
//Per
Posted on: 08 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
Bingo! This is the problem I've been experiencing with my streamers for the past few weeks. I bought a new router and that did nothing. I can now disabled the streamers by launching Netflix on any iOS device in our home. Crazy.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Huge
Try searching www, there are a lot of reports of Netflix shutting down other devices. Pipelight & Silverlight seem to be suspects in many cases.
Mike, I know enough of Silverlight to know that, of itself, it won't significantly impact networks (or PCs), but badly written applications that use Silverlight most certain can and sometime do have major impact (memory leaks, handle leaks and poor network error recovery techniques are the most common faults).
I don't know enough of Pipelight.
I would also say of Silverlight that it's by no means the most secure of things, it's much better than Adobe Flash, but it's still not that good.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Mike-B
Hi Huge, a lot of www blogs have (in the past) been advising to delete installed versions of both Silverlight & Pipelight & install the current rev(s). Now its seems Netflix are more engaged as Naim HQ have sent them a defect report as it directly affects the Naim app, & I assume from reading the Apple forums & blogs they've done the same wrt their TV apps, hopefully Netflix will come up with a fix PDQ.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Huge
Uninstalling Silverlight is a very effective way of stopping a rogue Silverlight application from causing issues (but it also stops all the other well behaved Silverlight applications as well!).
Having said that, I don't install it on my PCs; but that's for technical security reasons, not for performance issues.
At least Netflix are owning up, accepting the problem is theirs and are working on a fix. Bugs happen (despite testing), and this response from Netfix is as good as can ever be hoped for in the circumstances.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
A Netflix problem? Sounds like a Naim problem. Whatever is going on only my Naim streamers are impacted. Naim cannot be so fragile that some random app makes it unusable.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by DavidDever
It's a Netflix app problem - as it affects other manufacturers' streamers (not just their control apps) as well.
The network is a shared resource, and bad actors cannot be kept at bay unless you isolate your music streaming network from everything else. It's pretty straightforward.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
Netflix app is now putting my NDX into "Streamer Update" mode. How is this possible?
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Mike-B
Netflix is the problem so why don't you turn it off ???
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
Well I have children and a spouse that do not necessarily share my concern with steaming music. The real issue is how can Netflix put my 6K NDX into Streamer Update mode? I understand it might be a bug in the Netflix app but it raises some concerns regarding the network security of my Naim streamers. Is it possible a malicious application could intentionally damage my components?
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Mike-B
I would not be concerned why it does it, I would also not be blaming Naim or anyone's security either. Just look at a ww search, Netflix have a history of causing crashes with a number of other systems over a number of years, Apple, Chrome etc., & I would think their security is pretty good. It looks to me that the Netflix history on this kind of thing is a shameful shambles. I would not let them near my PC & especially my audio.
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Netflix app is now putting my NDX into "Streamer Update" mode. How is this possible?
I REALLY would turn it off - you don't know what damage this Netflix app is potentially causing other devices such as NAS's, work PCs, home automation, you name it, on your network.
It sounds like a nasty piece of code - in other circles it could be called malware, if it does cause damage to someone some where it could get legal which would be interesting... i wonder if Netflix insurers are raising an eyebrow at the moment..
Kevin - malicious or badly written code can always cause damage. Home networks are largely trusted domains - the complexity involved with securing all operations would limit interoperability, add complexity and be daunting for the average consumer.. The correct security approach is to disable the offender once intrusive behaviour is detected. ITs not hard to write code, especially if you can control the TCP/IP stack that screws up devices on your home network - but why would you - and that is what you have firewalls for when connecting to the internet. As the home network owner you need to have confidence that the apps and devices you run don't interfere with each or other wise mis use your home network. Would you a run a dodgy bit of code, or code that you learn crashes or corrupts code on your PC or MAC? Its exactly the same as having a dodgy piece or badly written piece of code that uses your network.
Simon
Posted on: 09 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
Sound advice. I've determined that only the most recent version of Netflix is problematic. Will get that version installed on all our iOS devices. The big issue to me is that my kids, nephews/nieces, wife and various friends and family have access to our network. The younger members of this set have 100's of app installed. If Netflix can cause this behavior what prevents any number of apps from also messing up my streamer? I mean it was a major troubleshooting nightmare to discover Netflix was the "bad actor." Now I need to thoroughly test every app on every device that is connected to my network? This is a big problem.
I would just like to know how anything is allowed to put my NDX into Streamer Update mode. I was under the impression that the box needed to be connected via usb to update the firmware. Is there really some set of tcp packets that is allowed to trigger this?
Posted on: 10 March 2016 by Huge
...
Now I need to thoroughly test every app on every device that is connected to my network? This is a big problem.
...
I used to work in an environment where it was essential to have a secure network. Yes, we tested every application. It was a right palava, but it's the only way to ensure complete application level security.
What anti-malware are you running on your iOS devices and does it use heuristic analysis. If it doesn't then you are open to this (and other types) of problem occurring; either unintentionally through a bug (as here), or intentionally through deliberately written malware.
Posted on: 10 March 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Kevin - probably not practical to test everything - what a bore... but clearly if something starts to misbehave you best stop using it until it is fixed.
As far as the Update Mode message scenario - that is intriguing - possibly it has crashed the streamer and an inappropriate message has been popped up..
Simon
Posted on: 11 March 2016 by Weegie
I have a similar problem although not identical. I use the Netflix app pre installed on my TV and until lately, I could watch a movie on Netflix and listen to the audio on my Muso via an optical connection. Now when I try to do this I get no audio on the Musu. I do however get audio on the Muso when watching regular TV.
Posted on: 16 March 2016 by Anders in småland
Problems for me to!
Mine is working perfect except when I start the Netflixapp on the iPad. I have fine signalstrenght on the Qb mesaured in Netgear genie. I have bought a new router for about 150£, Netgear R7000. Tried both 2.4 and 5 Ghz on the iPad, no difference. Signal drops!
Hope there is a solution..
Anders
Posted on: 16 March 2016 by Comtesse
Exact same issue here!!
Setup: SuperUnity wired connection to the router with Netflix apps installed on several Ipads connected to the same network wirelessly.
As soon as I open the Netflix app on one of my iPads my Naim crashes instantly. Even when I just listen to my tv sound.. so it is the basic connection between the IOS app and the Naim.
This issue does not take place when I have the Netflix app open on my Samsung Tizen SmartTV.
Hope we come up with a solution fast. I cannot listen to my Naim when the kids watch Netflix :-( anymore.
Peter
Posted on: 16 March 2016 by Kevin Richardson
Exact same issue here!!
Setup: SuperUnity wired connection to the router with Netflix apps installed on several Ipads connected to the same network wirelessly.
As soon as I open the Netflix app on one of my iPads my Naim crashes instantly. Even when I just listen to my tv sound.. so it is the basic connection between the IOS app and the Naim.
This issue does not take place when I have the Netflix app open on my Samsung Tizen SmartTV.
Hope we come up with a solution fast. I cannot listen to my Naim when the kids watch Netflix :-( anymore.
Peter
There is a temporary fix. Roll back to version 7.1.9. I've tested it and it works.
