Netflix and Naim streamer conflict

It's entirely possible that it's neither a Naim problem nor a Netflix problem.  They can both be fully compliant with DLNA 1.5 and this still happen.  Both DLNA and UPnP specifications have ambiguities and 'open' areas where they do not rigidly define implementation.  This is also why some control points won't work with some media renderers / media players.

That Netfix have no intention of fixing the problem may not be because they think it's a Naim problem, but may be they think Naim too small a player in the areas to have any noticeable effect on their profitability, and hence not commercially worth the cost of researching and fixing a complex bug.

If it were me I would drop Netflix like a hot brick,  if you search www for Netflix problems it looks to me they have issues with a lot of other services.   

Huge posted:

It's entirely possible that it's neither a Naim problem nor a Netflix problem.  They can both be fully compliant with DLNA 1.5 and this still happen.  Both DLNA and UPnP specifications have ambiguities and 'open' areas where they do not rigidly define implementation.  This is also why some control points won't work with some media renderers / media players.

That Netfix have no intention of fixing the problem may not be because they think it's a Naim problem, but may be they think Naim too small a player in the areas to have any noticeable effect on their profitability, and hence not commercially worth the cost of researching and fixing a complex bug.

Except that it is not just a problem with UPnP. Just listening to iRadio on an Ethernet connected Mu-so and it looses connection as soon as the Netflix App is started on an iPad! The illuminated ring around the control dims and pulses. Have to exit Netflix completely and it recovers.

I use Netflix a lot, although would consider dropping it for the good of the Hifi - sadly I think I'll be prizing Mrs Harty's Netflix enabled iPad out of her cold dead hands!!

We could use an update please Naim...

G

Graeme, isn't it Netflix that need to provide an update for their customers.. I guess probably best raising it on their forum assuming they have one.. Really don't see this is a Naim issue at all other than it must be very irritating for them, all they can suggest I guess is that you don't use the Netflix apps which from all accounts appear poorly written... Perhaps Netflix customers on this forum ought to ask to be in the Netflex beta programme so as to avoid these shenanigans.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Graeme, isn't it Netflix that need to provide an update for their customers.. I guess probably best raising it on their forum assuming they have one.. Really don't see this is a Naim issue at all other than it must be very irritating for them, all they can suggest I guess is that you don't use the Netflix apps which from all accounts appear poorly written... Perhaps Netflix customers on this forum ought to ask to be in the Netflex beta programme so as to avoid these shenanigans.

Simon

Netflix may have a moral obligation but clearly not a corporate imperative. With teenage kids in the house - and numerous ipads - not using Netflix is not an option. In the real world I'm in a minority of one with my naim app in our household.

I suspect I'm not alone in this.

G

Naim is the only party that can realistically determine the exact cause of the issue.  They have everything necessary to reproduce the bug and isolate the point of failure.  At the very least they would then be able to communicate specific technical details to Netflix.  It is even a possibility that some bug in Naim's code is partially to blame.  Who knows for sure until appropriate testing has been performed?  All I know for sure is that:  Most of my family wants to watch Netflix on their iPads, I am the only one who cares about streaming music, we are quickly reaching a breaking point in our family politics, I pay 8$ / month for Netflix and a NDX streamer now costs > 7,000$ USD.  Netflix has literally nothing to lose.  How many potential customers could Naim lose when people are doing home demos of streamers that appear to act irrationally?

I am very concerned that anything is allowed to put my NDX into "Streamer Update Mode" without proper authority.

Kevin Richardson posted:

Naim is the only party that can realistically determine the exact cause of the issue.  They have everything necessary to reproduce the bug and isolate the point of failure.  At the very least they would then be able to communicate specific technical details to Netflix.  It is even a possibility that some bug in Naim's code is partially to blame.  Who knows for sure until appropriate testing has been performed?  All I know for sure is that:  Most of my family wants to watch Netflix on their iPads, I am the only one who cares about streaming music, we are quickly reaching a breaking point in our family politics, I pay 8$ / month for Netflix and a NDX streamer now costs > 7,000$ USD.  Netflix has literally nothing to lose.  How many potential customers could Naim lose when people are doing home demos of streamers that appear to act irrationally?

I am very concerned that anything is allowed to put my NDX into "Streamer Update Mode" without proper authority.

Indeed.

G

I would suggest Apple ban the Netflix app from their App Store as it appears to be buggy.

Apple has a responsibility too here.

I agree with Aleg, in fact I did suggest to one member on this forum that they report to Apple .. I wonder if they did and what the response was.

from what I hear this problem is far from specific to Naim and sounds potentially dangerous by damaging or corrupting other home applications on the network.

In a commercial (non domestic ) environment the Netflex app would be almost certainly banned until Netflex isolated the issue.. including working with affected parties.. But in the domestic environment anything appears to go.. Quite shocking really.. If a web malware infected or corrupted my computer I wouldn't blame the manufacturer of my computer.. I would blame the user for not being vigilant and using the suspect software until it was remedied.

Certainly all Netflex apps banned in SinS towers until Netflex resolve or provide a clear usage advisory and I strongly advise members of this forum to do the same... Or if not use the Netflix app purely at their own risk. Naim audio replay is one of the least of my concerns...I take errant software seriously, I know the damage it can cause... I suspect  this is some kind of buggy promiscuous  layer two discovery or multicast implementation on the Netflex app. With the Internet of things and more devices being controlled using network access this situation could possibly be  even dangerous in some circumstances.

Simon.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I agree with Aleg, in fact I did suggest to one member on this forum that they report to Apple .. I wonder if they did and what the response was.

from what I hear this problem is far from specific to Naim and sounds potentially dangerous by damaging or corrupting other home applications on the network.

In a commercial (non domestic ) environment the Netflex app would be almost certainly banned until Netflex isolated the issue.. including working with affected parties.. But in the domestic environment anything appears to go.. Quite shocking really.. If a web malware infected or corrupted my computer I wouldn't blame the manufacturer of my computer.. I would blame the user for not being vigilant and using the suspect software until it was remedied.

Certainly all Netflex apps banned in SinS towers until Netflex resolve or provide a clear usage advisory and I strongly advise members of this forum to do the same... Or if not use the Netflix app purely at their own risk. Naim audio replay is one of the least of my concerns...I take errant software seriously, I know the damage it can cause... I suspect  this is some kind of buggy promiscuous  layer two discovery or multicast implementation on the Netflex app. With the Internet of things and more devices being controlled using network access this situation could possibly be  even dangerous in some circumstances.

Simon.

Simon, 

Forgive my IT ignorance (at this level) but I was under the impression this was some "sloppy code writing" in the Netflix app that was "clashing" with code in the Naim app (as well as other apps). Are you suggesting that this issue is a security risk? Again in my noddy IT knowledge, Malware suggests virus / pinching your passwords / locking data etc. I'm assuming the Netflix app is not such a serious issue - more of a frustration than a security risk???

I will contact Apple - could you confirm any issues your aware of with other apps - I will feed that back to them also (I fear I may be urinating in the wind (with Apple) - but worth a go).

This is a really complicated area. In principle, each app should stick to its swim lane and not interfere with any other. In practice, the coding environment isn't so simple. The technology is constantly moving forward and is built in layers (eg Swift, Cocoa, IOS) that themselves contain bugs and inconsistencies. In this case, clearly the Netflix app is having a bad effect on others, but it may still be conforming to the standards Apple sets, so Netflix may legitimately say it isn't their problem.

Your best bet to is to complain to Apple and Netflix directly - Netflix respond fairly well to Twitter, so try @NetflixHelps.

These problems tend to occur in a consumer environment rather than a business one because there are many more apps undergoing far less compatibility testing. Also, consumer set far more store in 'functionality' than 'dependability', relative to businesses, and app developers act accordingly.

And finally, there's more chance of my captaining England at football than Apple removing the Netflix app from the store.

Solid Air posted:

 

And finally, there's more chance of my captaining England at football than Apple removing the Netflix app from the store.

Very +1 

Just to explore our options on this.....  How about we start with an assumption that "This behavior of causing music streamers to not function is actually what the Netflix wants to happen."  Maybe this isn't a bug but a purpose built feature.

In this scenario Apple won't care, Naim streamers aren't part of the "ecosystem".  Netflix won't do anything since this is, for some reason, a desirable feature to them.

Naim should add a disclaimer on their products stating:  "Naim is aware that iOS Netflix app renders our 15,000$ USD NDS component completely unusable.  Naim recommends not using our streamers in a network that might also have iOS Netflix usage."

Try playing the British cop series "Happy Valley" on Netflix, I can stream the audio from this through my Muso but not most other movies. As I said in an earlier post, the problem appears to be selective.

Weegie posted:

Try playing the British cop series "Happy Valley" on Netflix, I can stream the audio from this through my Muso but not most other movies. As I said in an earlier post, the problem appears to be selective.

Hang on. What device are you running Netflix on and exactly how are you streaming the audio through your Mu-so?

I'm using the Netflix app on a Panasonic plasma hooked up to the muso by the optical connection. I only realised this the other day when I switched on the muso without thinking and lo and behold, I got the audio from the Netflix show. Later on I tried another movie but this time it did not work. I went back to Happy Valley and it continued to work through the optical/ muso connection. Go figure.

Thanks Weegie

The problems that I and others have reported occurs when starting the Netflix App to view on an iPad. No Naim systems are in use by the Netflix App itself or the iPad.

Mu-so is not the only Naim streamer affected, but in the case of a Mu-so the starus light goes from white to flashing orange/yellow. The UK-based Mu-so help team have had a briefing note on this but seemed not to be aware of the wider issue affecting other Naim streamers when I spoke to them today.

Roger

I get the problem whether I open Netflix on an iPad or on the built in app on my tv, it immediately cuts the audio on the muso. It was strange though that a single show ie "Happy Valley " works perfectly with the muso. 

Regular tv programming on the tv works fine with the muso as a soundbar. Pity though because movies are the only time I use it as a soundbar.

Weegie posted:

I'm using the Netflix app on a Panasonic plasma hooked up to the muso by the optical connection. I only realised this the other day when I switched on the muso without thinking and lo and behold, I got the audio from the Netflix show. Later on I tried another movie but this time it did not work. I went back to Happy Valley and it continued to work through the optical/ muso connection. Go figure.

And as far as this is concerned, the audio settings matter. See this featured topic in the Streaming Forum https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-a-tv-or-set-top-box

Roger

Weegie posted:

I get the problem whether I open Netflix on an iPad or on the built in app on my tv, it immediately cuts the audio on the muso. It was strange though that a single show ie "Happy Valley " works perfectly with the muso. 

Regular tv programming on the tv works fine with the muso as a soundbar. Pity though because movies are the only time I use it as a soundbar.

Sorry, getting crossed replies. The issue with Netflix is a network issue and so affects audio being streamed across the network to the Mu-so. Check your own status light the next time this happens. As you were taking the audio directly into the digital input the network issue no longer applied. As for why it works with some and not others, as I have said, check the audio format.

Roger

I read this topic but my tv is set for pcm stereo and I've never had a sound/volume problem when using the muso as a soundbar. I dispensed with my 7.1 set-up in favour of the one box solution, the muso. Plus with my hearing starting to fade, I needed the clarity of the muso. No problems at all as a soundbar. BTW, I previously had a Definitive Technology soundbar set up with wireless sub,  .....not in the same league as the muso. The DT bar is now a paperweight.

Thanks, I get what you're saying now.

HDX keeps hanging.  Will not switch off from the front.  Could this be related?