My Qute will now be downgraded, sigh!

Tog, AIFF downloads from iTunes would be a start - I could then easily transcode to WAV for my Naim stuff.

Lhau, I guess the general people you refer to aren't really the sort of people who would buy Naim audio equipment??

Simon

> Tog you got to remember people here are not normal.

I protesth, I be normal

I am normal 'cos I dig Bert Weedon - Viv Stanshall 1969

We be probably going to start listening to music in lossless format (ALAC) later in the year; you won't need to download though merely purchase a link (symbolically speaking) to the song in your iCloud space. This will let you play the song by streaming to your iPod, iPad or other Airplay capable device (NDX2?) anywhere, any time, any place, possibly while sipping a Martini. The will no doubt kindle a response from that other large music store who I suspect will adopt FLAC as it standard whereas it currently offers MP3 320 and through the wonders of elastic computing the NAS will be dead and you'll simply use a share in the cloud.  

The future has never looked so bright: hence I've invested my savings in Shades. 

Oh dear, I seem to have stirred up something of a hornets nest here.  That was not my intention at all.  

I agree that I may well be confused, even stupid.  But I actually enjoy experimenting with different kit.  I still have my NAS , so if I ever have a change of heart, I can start over.  

But I was put off uPNP by my experience of it.  My feelings were: never again .  Thus my turning back to iTunes.  It is safe and works.  I also have a few thousand 256 K downloads off the Apple Store.  I like them, they sound OK.  But it is mostly very old stuff, jazz from the fifties, etc.  I tend to collect old stuff, whether pop, jazz or even classical.  I actually ripped all my CD's to AAC 254K in my first forays into computer audio. I was perfectly happy untill the virus started up again 

Nowadays they are all in ALAC format.  So to go back to uPNP I would probably need to re-rip yet again.  Remember, I had started re-ripping to the Naim WAV standard before returning to ALAC. Boy, I feel I have been through the wringer.  As J.N. says, it should not be this difficult.  

My intention now is to have a play with the forthcoming Essensio, then if I am dissatisfied, I will save up for the Weiss 202. But I have two weddings on the horizon, so care will be needed.  If Naim came out with a suitable product in the mean time, I would plump for it immediately.  If not, I will wait and see.

I am like Tog in one respect, I enjoy using my iPad in bed.  Last night I watched the Formula 1 Qualifying.  Tonight it will be the race.  I will be out when it is run, so it will be something to look forward to tonight.

Thank you all for your mostly helpful comments.  I do appreciate the time taken to help me.

Richard

Meanwhile in Ye Olde England ...

"One of the most famous physicians was John Arderne who wrote "The Art of Medicine" and who treated royalty. He was considered a master in his field but his cure for kidney stones was a hot plaster smeared with honey and pigeon dung!"

I think he may have quite liked aac - well it was safe and it worked....

Tog

Tog

The fact that Apple have this one audiophile blind spot should be a source of relief to Naim.

I smiled when I read that - I suspect you are probably right.

Simon

I am confident that Apple will address iTunes' lack of credibility within the audiophile community. Not necessarily soon, but one day.  Jobs is driven to succeed.  He wants to be all conquering, make better products. If he becomes aware that a large number of people believe one of his products is seen as risible, we may be surprised at what follows.  

I was surprised to learn that only one person at Apple is responsible for their iPad/iPhone Remote app. He also has other duties as well!  Imagine what they could achieve if they really turned their mind to audiophile matters.

Richard

That is what I was told by one of the Genius' guys at an Apple Store. It dos sound unlikely, but maybe he meant after it was developed, it only merits one person to maintain/improve it.  

But in view of the incredible rate of improvement Apple are making in both earnings and products, I would not be surprised if they eventually get around to improving iTunes downloads to something similar (or better) than is offered by others.

Richard

I used to think so also but I no longer hold much hope of that.  There are many holes in their catalogue also, so even if they were to offer something a bit higher resolution it probably wouldn't be my go to place for music anyway.  My hope is that the label's themselves can offer their whole catalogues up in at least cd quality, that would go a long way toward making the computer music 

movement a more viable one going forward for myself.

Not sure why Amazon doesn't do this ... it could easily offer CD quality downloads and it has an enormous catalogue. I suspect Apple will offer CD quality or better through iCloud - if they do it so you stream rather download then it does make it more difficult to copy. 

However, I'm beginning to think I'll be buying less rather than more music as I have quite a lot of music to listen to on my server, and the quality is fine. If I want hi-quality then I seek out the vinyl. 

All the best, Guy

realhifi - Amen! Let's see if 2012 is 'the' year.

Dave

Can either platform handle millions of people streaming redbook or hires concurrently?  Look how slow iTunes downloads are already.  Last FM and Pandora have a tough enough time with extremely lossy mp3s. 

To expect them to pay through the nose to attempt to reliably stream something potentially 10 times bigger without drops, just so you can enjoy hires Brittany Spears, is folly.  Apple doesn't care about quality (as much as we do), and with the crap they market it wouldn't matter anyway.

-Patrick

I don't really know, but I suspect that both Apple and Amazon do care. Apple does make some carefully researched attractive products though no computing product on the consumer market today meets my expectations of where we should be. I think the millstone of a dominant, but seriously flawed computing desktop set us back years, but that's all in the past now; the tide has thankfully turned. (Ideally this should read while listening to King Kong on side 4 of the vinyl edition of Uncle Meat). 

Amazon has an advantage because of its distributed systems. However, both companies have the capability to succeed - this would mean optimising the connection at both ends and applying adequate buffers/caches. Perhaps a little bit of multicasting could come in to play. After all Apple TV works. 

I think Google are also thinking of joining in at least that was the implication in the Sunday Times.

I hope one of these giants gets it right; I don't mind which one really.  At least they have all been helpful when I've used their services.

Indicators are it will cost much less 25p a tune to buy the rights to stream and listen to Brittany as many times as you want (that is not very many in my case, but you can't always get what you want)

All the best, Guy 

My other half keeps buying records off Itunes which annoys me, since youre left with a 256kbps recording, and the price is pretty similar to buying the cd from amazon.

If genuine cd quality was available, I would start to think about it, but would probably still prefer to buy the cd since the download is no better.

Better than cd downloads from linn and naim I have no problem with and have downloaded several titles. Do Ipods play hi res files at all? If so maybe this could be a possibility in future.

My Goodness, Apple really does wind you up!   Well better get used to it, because this is the age of the third post PC product - the iPad.  Apple struggled for years to catch up with MS.  But now, at last, it is all coming together for them  Apple market value has now exceeded the joint values of Microsoft and Intel - an incredible achievement in just a few years.  

So better get used to it, Patrick. Maybe MS will pack it all in, or even get bought out by Apple. At least then we should see some significant product improvements.  You know, products that actually work straight out of the box.  

Just joking.

Richard

Richard,

I dont really find fault with Apple in general.  It is mostly their Mac OS and relevant software I dont get along with.

The iOS is STELLAR.  And Apple's hardware is second to few.

As an owner of the iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPad, and bluetooth keyboard, you can see I am not as close minded as most entrenched in one camp or the other.

For ANYONE to claim that either Microsoft, (maybe its better said, the PC world in general), or Apple dont have anything worthwhile to offer is bullbleep.  In this day both companies have a ton to offer everyone. I find that embracing the best of both worlds proves to be the way to go for flexibility and a great user experience.

Regarding your last comment, you must remember that those who like PCs feel EXACTLY the same way.  PC world always works for me.  Macs rarely if ever work "out of the box" (for me), and my main issue with Mac OS is when it doesn't work, you have no idea where to even start to look to fix it.

I have set-up networks on Macs and found it to be the most difficult thing imaginable even with Airports etc.... 

The strange thing (about Mac fans) to me is this:  Most PC users are happy to use Apple products when appropriate.  Many would happily use a Mac if it would run the software they need it to.

BUT!!!  Ask an "Apple person" to use ANYTHING NOT made by Apple and it is GO TIME.  They will never have it.  In fact they are embarrassed to even be seen with one.

That kind of myopia, and lame snobbery, pisses me off regardless of what side of the line you stand on.

Telling a PC person to get an iPad for control shouldn't invoke nausea.  Telling a Mac guy to get a mini-PC for ripping, serving, and playing shouldn't be like asking them to rape their own mother.

My best buddy with a Mac mini REALLY wants to use J River Media Center and Foobar.  Also would like to easily playback  FLACs.  Ideally he would like to rip to FLAC.  He would also prefer to stream via UPNP rather than the Airport to Digi route. And after he saw EAC he would definitely prefer its ease/transparency over the cryptic whatnot of XLD.

But he wont do it.  He cant.  If his friends saw it, what would he say?    He lives in Brooklyn, runs a production company, rides a vintage Norton, only buys furniture and clothes from famous designers, and would NEVER be seen wearing shorts unless he is surfing in Costa Rica.

It is these people I cannot fathom, although they can be my best friend.

Rant over,

-Patrick

Current iPods are limited to vanilla 16/48 files. If the now long-quiet rumours of Apple releasing high resolution music on iTunes come true then logic would follow new iPods being hi-res players. Alas we can only dream.