My Qute will now be downgraded, sigh!

Yes, but as I understand it Steve Jobs heard of your disappointment, halted production and immediately had the next production run upgraded so it would meet your requirements - now that's what I call service  

It can be done though.

I am nearly tempted to do one of my minis as the video renderer on linux is swish. 

I have twice tried to use the Mac Mini as a media player.  But the hassle of juggling with a wireless KB and mouse, got on my nerves.  I am sure the experts can prove it must sound better, but I am happy to settle for the convenience of a MacBook.  

Excitement is building now as I see my Essensio is on its way - left Bologna, Italy at 0330 this morning, ETA Tuesday.  So I will be reporting back as soon as it arrives and is connected into the system.  

Hope Mrs Tog is getting well.

Richard

Richard, I just don't think you have the necessery knowledge about computers I really don't.

I have never 'juggled' a wireless keyboard on my lap.

A little research turns up a number of options for a full home media experience, XBMC, PLEX and Boxee.

XBMC is even pandering to all us audiophile types by incorporating a bit perfect audio output on the next build. Meaning you can have your cake and eat it.

further more all this is controlled with nothing more than a gorgeous Harmony One remote, there has not been a keyboard or mouse near my mini since the OS was installed.

I have access to my entire movie collection, TV shows and music as well as iPlayer in glorious HDall on my 40 inch LED TV.

"Yes, but as I understand it Steve Jobs heard of your disappointment, halted production and immediately had the next production run upgraded so it would meet your requirements - now that's what I call service "

 Touche!

Steve, if you're listening - I want flac, upnp, and flash support built in please... 

oh, and make it Linux friendly for Tog...

Firstly, my apologies for my tardy response. I have been very ill since Friday night with food poisoning picked up courtesy of one of the local Indian restaurants (never again!).  Only today do I feel well enough to respond.

I agree that I have very little computer knowledge.  But hang on, just why should I have to have any such knowledge at all to use a Hi Fi brand's products? 

Surely it is the business of the manufacturer to ensure that all users can easily use their products. It is absurd, even funny, to infer that my lack of computer skill is somehow my fault and the reason for my lack of success with these products.  No way. I should not need any computer knowledge to use a competently designed and easy to use software package.

My problems came about because I was not prepared to use a Dos style software to access my music.  No amount of learning new techniques was going to get me to revert to a Windows OS. Even I have managed to learn how to use Apple's software.  This does not mean very much as anybody can quickly learn to use it.  Which is exactly why I and others choose it over Windows. It is exactly why the iPad is conquering everything in sight. A child learns how to use it almost by instinct, it is that easy. That is what I now expect from any software to control my music.

As you, together with many others in this Forum have such abilities, I say good luck to you. 

Just my opinion and no offence is intended to those that choose otherwise.

Richard

This morning I received delivery of my Essensio DAC.  I delayed installation until late in the afternoon, as I was still feeling a little weak and unsteady after my recent bout of gastro-enteritis.

The software supplied was installed without a hitch. The only glitch was caused by me not pushing the Chord Anthem 2 interconnect sufficiently firmly onto one of the RCA sockets.  Soon corrected and I had music. So what did it sound like from cold and straight out of the box?

Richard

I totally disagree with you here.

You are dealing here with new technology that has not yet been fully developed as a technology, standards are not there yet or are in the process of being developed or becoming defacto established.

With Computer Audio we are still in the phase of "early adopters" (I think we are outside the phase of innovators already) and in this phase it still requires a lot of technical know-how from users to "get things going" properly.

If you are not up to that or not willing to invest in obtaining that knowledge, than computer audio is "not for you" yet. You might have to wait for another 5 - 10 years before all this settles and becomes noob end consumer friendly. Look at the theory of Rogers on Diffusion of innovations.

If you choose to become involved in new technology right in the beginning than you have to invest quite a lot yourself and it is no blaming the companies like Naim for troubles you yourself  have and that you should be able to solve yourself given the phase of development of this technology.

"Just my opinion and no offence is intended to those that choose otherwise."

 -

aleg

Hi Aleg - Had you said:  "If you are not up to that or not willing to invest in obtaining that knowledge, than Naim computer audio is "not for you" yet", I would certainly (but regrettably) agree.  

However, my point is that I have achieved all I want and need using a MacBook's USB out and an Italian design of DAC - the Essensio.  There are almost certainly others which I have not tried.  My point being that there is a simplistic solution available, which does not require being a computer geek to be able to take advantage of.  The only knowledge required was the ability to install Pure Music and the driver software (off CD) and an ability to connect up a few cables. 

No nasty NAS worries, no networking knowledge.  Simples.

Richard

Richard

It is not about Naim computer audio. If you stick to their solutions, i.e. a Naim renderer combined with a Naim server, I think you will not run into any issues.

It is when people start using their own personal computers (which often they don't really understand), having routers they don't know how to configure properly and wanting to use UPnP streaming (which I still think is unfinished technology and quite sh***ty) then you are leaving the noob-area.

I still think (and I agree that we may disagree) that all this computer audio (esp. in the mix-and-match outside single brands) is still some way off for 'ordinary' end consumers. I think most end consumers even can't handle their own personal computer properly (be it Windows, Apple or Linux for that matter) and when computer networking comes into play I think they really don't know what's it all about.

-

aleg

lhau

Richard did receive help with his network problems from his dealer, AFAIU he didn't take their advice though.

-

aleg

So I heard.

Apparently, that is not enough. I feel Richard needs to have full spoon feed services including full installation and setup to ensure that all he need was to press the touch screen of iPad..... Advice was not what he needed I am afraid.

Hi Richard -

First of all, sorry to hear about your bout with food poisoning.   Have had that happen twice over the years, so I know how ugly those episodes can be!   Glad to hear you are recovering.   No better cure than rest, and good music!

Second, congrats on the purchase of your new DAC.  It takes a while for US delivery of Hi-Fi News, but I got my July issue yesterday, and read the glowing review of the Essensio.   Sounds like a really good dac!   Am glad to gear that the now "traditional" Mac/Dac setup is working for you.

I do have a recommendation, and a couple of cautions for you to consider. 

For remote control, Apple does offer iTunes Remote:

http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/

But I have read of instances when there is an update to iTunes or Pure Music, the connection between them breaks, causing the remote to fail. Or when iTunes and/or Pure Music is updated, the sound somehow changes, and occasionally for the worse.  If you have truly reached a point of happiness, then I suggest you document your versions and settings, and perhaps even set up a test environment for trying changes.   Otherwise, you might find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having lost that magical combination that made everything sound right!   Even after an update, you should be prepared to revert to an old version, settings, etc.

The other caution, and I am sure you already know this, is that  iTunes was not necessarily purpose built with classical music lovers in mind.  Naim have considered this, and provided extended metadata support including separate artist, performer, composer and conductor fields which some find important.   It will be up to you to decide if this metadata is important to you, and if so, how you want to keep track of it.

I honestly have no interest in rehashing your previous experience or frustrations.  My opinion is that yours was a unique, unfortunate situation, and that the only important thing now is that you have found a solution that currently works for you. 

Best of luck going forward.

Hook

I am either not very clear in my statements or one of us is missing the point:  It is NOT a question of my abilities regarding network settings, or computer usage, or whatever.  It is the ease of use of the software used to control the music.  I like iTunes. I use iTunes. I will not deviate from using iTunes. Despite there being many other ways to achieve good sound, I will not be choosing them.

No criticism is intended towards Naim SQ.  I have the highest regard for their sound quality. My concern, if it is a concern anymore, is their lack of interest in incorporating an asynchronous USB input. There was a time when Naim absolutely refused to incorporate RCA phono sockets on their kit.  Market pressure has changed that.  Maybe market pressure will cause them to change their minds regarding USB inputs.  If or when they do, I shall be very interested.  

I agree computer based audio is still an immature or even an emerging technology.  I also agree that over time it will coalesce into a standard that will prevail throughout the sound industry.  The question to ask is:  Do you believe that a network NAS or an asynchronous USB system will be the winner?   Or more pertinently, if a NAS system, will it be the one chosen by Naim?  In other words, will Naim cause the industry to fall into line behind its methods, or will Naim be forced into a shrinking market share or even abandon its present position and change to whatever becomes the standard?  

I still have my Netgear Duo NAS.  It is hard wired to my Network. I never use it, despite being accessible via the MacBook.  I will re-try using it tomorrow. Maybe with the Essensio I will perceive an improvement.  If I do, I will certainly continue to use it.  But it would still be controlled using PM + iTunes and my Remote app via the iPad. I could try connecting it to the Qute once again.  But it was so irksome to try and use the Qute via its front display. I was advised that Naim do not at present support Apple. If I wished to continue using my Apple devices, it was suggested I use some external third party software. The N-Stream only allowed crude slider control of volume and choice of input. So I would have needed some computer software to edit the tracks, etc.  The DTC offered with the UnityServe was unacceptable. This in a nutshell was my dilemma.  I made a choice.  I chose iTunes + Pure Music.  Others are free to choose something else.

@Hook:  Thanks for the tip regarding upgrades.  I have been using iTunes for years.  So far, never a problem. But it is worth keeping your tip in mind.  Thank you.

Richard

Firstly, Mrs Tog now back home convalescing after her rather surreal brush with mortality - many thanks to those who took time to wish her well, much appreciated - as is the fantastic work of the NHS staff who cared for her.

@Richard - glad to hear you are feeling better - nothing wrong with Macbook + Dac, I've been sorely tempted by the Young Dac - another Italian masterpiece but settled for streaming as a more elegant solution. I agree that the Windows app for uServe is clunky but there are other servers that will do just as good a job and quicker than Naim's baby which I find too fussy and domineering. N-Stream isn't perfect but works well on the Ipad2/Iphone and will get better. If I were you I would use Itunes into your dac via Remote, take a photo using it from your chair and post it for Dave D.

Have fun

Tog

Hi Richard

Sorry to hear about the food poisoning, but glad to hear you are enjoying your new DAC. 

User interfaces are always a subjective matter. I'd be just as happy with a command line interface as a graphical one. For me though iTunes is fine. I prefer the Sonus interface. I detest the interface on Windows 7. but that could be because the laptop I was given at work gives a whole new meaning to the term mediocre. The important thing is you have a user interface you like.

I use async USB courtesy of the V-Link, but I definitely do not think it is the future of audio. USB will be as dead in a few years as firewire is now. Of course, that doesn't matter as our systems will still work. Thunderbolt will be the new connection standard to replace USB/Firewire, new Macs already ship with it. Streaming over Ethernet will be the short term winner; I hope UPnP is replaced with something better and I hope that wireless replaces wires. 

I had a thought though - perhaps we could save digital music on some form of optical disk. Each disk could hold one album. Then we could feed the disc in to a player and it could extract the data directly from our disks and play it. The disc would need to be compact and not take up too much storage space. This would provide almost unlimited music capacity and if well designed ensure perfect sound forever. One of my friends even suggested going a stage further and saving it on a plastic disc in analogue format, but I think he'd been watching too many science fiction films. 

However, I think we'll all be streaming it from our iCloud service before long - it won't be a choice, it'll be a take or leave it way to get some recordings. 

All the best, Guy 

Networked ANYTHING is the future.  No matter what media you are talking about I do believe the writing is on the wall on networking and streaming media.  If you look at Apple's latest venture you can clearly see how a network environment is almost essential in their plans.  Their latest project is to have you stream your music from their huge servers in another country than you live in!  Think about their direction; Apple TV with no storage, MacBook Air with no hard drive, Airplay from streaming iPhones and iPads, streaming movies from an iPad to your television (no physical connection necessary), etc.  Talks are ongoing with cable tv providers to have stations available on the iPad which in turn can be Airplayed to your television set, no cables required thank you.

If anything it will be Apple that puts the finishing touches on getting rid of the USB connector, not Naim.

The first volley is the new thunderbolt connector seen on the MacBooks and soon to be on the new Mac Mini.  They are not standing still. 

I think (hope) that you will see devices from Naim soon that will incorporate Airplay and in that one move will quiet all the sceptics about Naim's supposed closed propriatory systemology and show that Naim is not falling behind but quietly keeping pace in a switfly changing musical landscape.

I would be keen to see Naim adopt Airplay as I have used it quite a lot in the past but certainly not displace uPNP. Since acquirng the NDX I have used the uPNP technology extesnively and hardly use airplay at all now other than streaming video from my phone to the flatscreen. But uPNP is  streets ahead of Airplay for usability for large music collections. I just love the way  uPNP can allow you to construct custom search containers with exisitng or new tags so you can sort and group you music in any way you want just like I order my LPs and CDs  for eacy access and searching. No such feature with Apple, perhaps Apple will learn from uPNP but I am not holding my breath. BTW its the Asset uPNP server I am using with N-Stream - Asset is a fastastic piece of software great for the larger music collection and runs quietly on a tiny little WHS machine.

Simon

Allen is right - network streaming is the way to go and when it works it is wonderfully elegant and simple.

Apple have some fairly strange ideas about where they want iOS to go in the future, given Jobs avowed distaste for file systems (?) and current fascination with cloud technology. I'm not sure if Airplay will meet the needs of high end audiophiles anytime soon. However, the competition clearly seem streaming as the way forward with a slew of good and not so good product appearing everywhere. Sonos/Slimserver showed that it can work and on Naim renderers it can sound wonderful.

Now where is N-stream 3 ?

Tog

> given Jobs avowed distaste for file systems (?)

What even HFS+? 

Surely being able to connect to great big music library in the sky is what we all live for and His Steveness just recognises that longing. The same offering will from the Amazon, albeit in another guise to kindle our enthusiasm afresh. So it'll be weighing up the pros and cons of both; you could say we've looked at clouds from both sides now, with AIFF and FLAC and still somehow, it's cloud illusions we recall as we don't really see how this will work at all. 

Is the weakness in the Sonus really due to its rendering capability or the jitter on its S/PDIF out? If the latter then this is easily overcome, if the former then ..... NDX is very expensive for merely rendering especially if it needs a 555PS to render at its best into a Naim DAC with its 555PS.