DAC V1 vs NDX

Hi,

What's your source into the DAC-V1 and Hugo?

Apologies I should have said.......it's not an easy comparison as we're talking two different product types, a streamer and a DAC.

Lets assume the NDX is fed FLAC or WAV from a NAS.

What feeds your DAC-V1 and Hugo? 

analogmusic posted:

Has anyone been able to compare these two?

I am thinking of upgrading from my DAC V1 to NDX, but not sure there is much improvement, unless of course an XPS is added to the NDX.

One forum member recently said he has quite a few sources connected to his 252 depending on the mood and music, and even though I have a Hugo, for dance music, the DAC V1 really does the job very well. 

Maybe NDX/XPS does it even better...?

Finally my extensive knowledge of DACs has a purpose.  I own V1, ND5, NDX and Hugo.  I have no idea how you are using the V1 or plan to use a NDX but I can tell you the  bare NDX is significantly "better sounding"  than V1. (Also I prefer the Hugo to the NDX.)  Of course this is meaningless without some kind of context.

I can only assume this question is cropping up because you know that the NDX and V1 use the same model DAC chip and are pondering the large price difference. Of course, that is just once component of many and the NDX has a better internal layout, PSU, DSP stage, and analogue output stage and the onboard streaming transport is of exceptional quality. So if used purely as a DAC I would still expect the NDX to outperform a V1 (though by how much I could not say). As for the NDX as a streamer against something like say a UQ2/V1 or MacMini/V1, again the NDX.

But your purpose and the context of everything else are all important I suppose.

I have 2 Naim amps in different rooms

the DAC V1 is used with a bare 202/200/NAPSC and I use that for watching movies and music of course.

It is convenient to use a macbook pro through USB for tidal and other music stored on NAS, but I sometimes use an iPad through USB into DAC V1 for tidal.

The Hugo is used with the 282/HCDR/250DR where it is fed by a squeezebox touch optical output, also use tidal on the squeezebox.

Kevin, how would you rate the DAC V1 against ND5 and NDX? Do you have an XPS with those streamers?

I know the Hugo sound very well know but it sure is fun to listen to the "all Naim" system DAC V1/202/200 when playing dance music.

Glad to know the NDX is better than DAC V1, but yes since they share identical DAC chips, not sure how much is gained by a move to NDX.

Also not sure if the 202/200 can give the best of an expensive source like NDX/XPS since the 202 has a rather flat and one dimensional soundstage compared to 282. Of course source first applies, but it is the incremental that I am not sure about above the DAC V1.

I don't really plan to use the NDX with my 282.

In my humble opinion an NDX in to a 202/200 is a waste of a fantastic source. 

Your 282/250 would be the obvious route. 

recent demo proved to me how well a bare NDX works with a 282 - IMHO

decisions

Hi Analogmusic, I think I am that forum member you refer to? I can't speak for the DAC V1, I heve never owned one, but the NDX would be quite happy into your 282 and certainly in to your 202 esp with a HiCapDR. Yes the NDX out can't really hold a candle to the Hugo out in an overall sense .but that's not the point.. It's about choice...for mood. Now the NDX has a specific Naim like character .. so it's always worth having.. You may find it works for parties or more background .. Almost juke box style where I find the 'X' level sources can work well and be more appropriate where an immersive performance is not required..  Not least Seasick Steve played air guitar style with a CDX2 at unhealthy volume is 'fun' to say the least.

now to be honest I don't use my NDX DAC out any more.. If I want that Naim 'X' level source effect, i use my CDX2 which seems to do its 'thing' better than the NDX.. but if I didn't have that I would (and did for a while) wire the NDX out into the pre as well as the Hugo.

BTW how are you grounding the source inputs on your 282 if only fed by a Hugo? In my setup I ground my 252 via my CDX2 and everything benefits with a more solid stable lower end performances, not least from my beloved Hugo. 

Simon

It has been a couple of years since I ran my a-b test but I rember the distinction was obvious.  The ND5 beat the V1 by a good margin.  Six months later I  impulsively bought a NDX with rather low expectations.  I was shocked at how much better it sounded vs my ND5 into the SN2.  They are really in completely different leagues.

The only power supply that I've convinced myself to buy is a HICAP DR.  I have no idea if the XPS is worthwhile.

I would not recommend the ND5 unless you plan to only use it as a streamer-transport.  In that case, I have no opinion as I am too lazy to compare it to the NDX.  I can recommend to NDX for any appropriate  usage scenario. (I currently use my ND5 as a transport into my Hugo for late night headphone listening.)

If money doesn't matter, you can should get two of them and run JRiver on a Mac.

Re ND5 vs NDX as streamer transport - NDX every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

G

Hi Simon I haven't made any effort to ground the Hugo into 282, I guess I don't know how to do it.

How do you do this?

analogmusic posted:

Hi Simon I haven't made any effort to ground the Hugo into 282, I guess I don't know how to do it.

How do you do this?

Hi Analogmusic, well if you get a NDX as well to feed into your preamp as well as Hugo you would flip the ground switch on the NDX to chassis and not float. You can also manually connect the signal ground from the Hugo to the chassis or mains safety earth.

Naim preamps appear to work best when one, and only one source is grounded to earth. The default used to be that CD players provided that ground path. If you leave the inputs floating into the NAC I certainly don't get hum or anything like that including from the Hugo - I just get a subtly more defined and solid sound - from my all my sources when I have that single true chassis/mains earth ground.

Simon

To answer your original question, yes I've made the comparison.

An NDX fed by music files from a USB stick was introduced as a substitute for a DAC V-1 fed by a Mac mini using Audivarna+ and thence to a 282/300/SL2 system.

The NDX sounded flat and lifeless compared to the V-1. Subjectively the NDX didn't seem to be a bad source but ultimately far less satisfying than the V-1.

Neither source is a patch on my CDS3/XPS.

Hope that helps.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

analogmusic posted:

Hi Simon I haven't made any effort to ground the Hugo into 282, I guess I don't know how to do it.

How do you do this?

Hi Analogmusic, well if you get a NDX as well to feed into your preamp as well as Hugo you would flip the ground switch on the NDX to chassis and not float. You can also manually connect the signal ground from the Hugo to the chassis or mains safety earth.

Naim preamps appear to work best when one, and only one source is grounded to earth. The default used to be that CD players provided that ground path. If you leave the inputs floating into the NAC I certainly don't get hum or anything like that including from the Hugo - I just get a subtly more defined and solid sound - from my all my sources when I have that single true chassis/mains earth ground.

Simon

Hi Simon , a bit of advice please . You mentioned this on another thread the other day . I have a Hugo that's fed by a ND5XS into my SN2 , do you or anyone else have any suggestions on the best possible grounding ? I have a spare DIN-DIN cable going from the ND5 to the SN as I was read somewhere this helped ? 

Peter

If you have a din cable plugged in then it is already grounded, is it not?

Peter, Dave, in this example set the ND5XS to chassis ground (the little slide switch on the back of the ND5XS case) and then keep  that spare DIN lead (or RCA - but DIN is neater) from the ND5XS output to the SN2 connected. You don't need to listen to this input as you may well be using the Hugo, but now your SN2 will be earth grounded irrespective of whether the input is selected- it should sound better. As always you might just prefer it floating - such is the way of Naim - but at least you can try either way.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Peter, Dave, in this example set the ND5XS to chassis ground (the little slide switch on the back of the ND5XS case) and then keep  that spare DIN lead (or RCA - but DIN is neater) from the ND5XS output to the SN2 connected. You don't need to listen to this input as you may well be using the Hugo, but now your SN2 will be earth grounded irrespective of whether the input is selected- it should sound better. As always you might just prefer it floating - such is the way of Naim - but at least you can try either way.

Simon

 

Thank you Simon . 

Thank you Simon, my DAC V1 was set to floating, and now I have set it to chassis

Will listen tomorrow and report back.

madasafish posted:

To answer your original question, yes I've made the comparison.

An NDX fed by music files from a USB stick was introduced as a substitute for a DAC V-1 fed by a Mac mini using Audivarna+ and thence to a 282/300/SL2 system.

The NDX sounded flat and lifeless compared to the V-1. Subjectively the NDX didn't seem to be a bad source but ultimately far less satisfying than the V-1.

Neither source is a patch on my CDS3/XPS.

Hope that helps.

Everybody has an opinion.  That is what I like about this forum.

Maybe I'll give the old V1 another chance.  I actually bought a Hiline just so I could run the V1 into my SN2 via din4--> din5 but never gave it a try since I'm afraid of breaking the thing.

Perhaps I'll report my findings.

setting the DAC V1 to chassis ground has improved the soundstage slightly, very subtle but there is improvement.

Now that my 202 is grounded properly, how do I go about grounding the 282 properly?

There is a solution of running a wire from the ground terminal into a spare plug, but any other solution?

DAC V1 is very sensitive to source. Much can be gained by simple tweaks that lowers noise floor to total blackness and far better sound in the end. 

In my case it sounds best when on same powerstrip as computer. The computer PSU was changed to one with extremely low ripple. Computer was stripped of everything unneccessary both in hardware and software. And lastly the USB-cable to the V1 isn't carrying power at all anymore. 

Before all abovementioned tweaks I wasn't very pleased at all. Sound was clipping in the highs a bit and there was a noisefloor to everything, muddling the baseline.

Now after everything it's a very much enjoyable system.

Oh and the powercable on V1 was changed in the end to a Naim Powerline. That was the "icing on the cake", making it an even more engaging experience.

(Never tried any streamer since the old Squeezebox-days)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Peter, Dave, in this example set the ND5XS to chassis ground (the little slide switch on the back of the ND5XS case) and then keep  that spare DIN lead (or RCA - but DIN is neater) from the ND5XS output to the SN2 connected. You don't need to listen to this input as you may well be using the Hugo, but now your SN2 will be earth grounded irrespective of whether the input is selected- it should sound better. As always you might just prefer it floating - such is the way of Naim - but at least you can try either way.

Simon

 

Hello Simon and Richard Dane

Would using the Unitiquite as streamer but connected through RCA/Din to RCA to RCA into my 282 achieve the signal earth grounding?

(of course with the switch set to chassis ground)

Should do

thanks Simon. I really appreciate that you have pointed this signal grounding issue out, as it allowed me to get the best out of the 282.