Melco music server for an NDS

Hi, Martin. No 100% sure if I understand your question, but I use my NDS with a Melco N1Z, works like a dream and sounds even better. 

//Jonas

Hi Martin, 

Given your question it looks like you see the Melco as an alternate streamer. It's not while you could connect it to a dac and use it that way. It's a audio grade nas which ensures that the music get's delivered in an optimal quality to your NDS - so that you have the best sound.

Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course.

I should have explained my system more fully. I have  Unitiserve 2TB and the NDS. The suggestion was that putting the Melco between the Unitiserve and the NDS has a substantial improvement - I do also have a NAS drive but all the high quality music I put on the Unitiserve as I think that gives the best quality. I'm not worried about the NAS quality as I use the Unitiserve for serious listening and the NAS mostly as back up.

I guess my choice might be between adding a second 555PS DR to the NDS or adding the Melco.

Thanks, Martin

I owned NDS and SSD-US previously, now have Melco N1A into 272. I like it, but did get a ex-demo version online and saved quite a bit, for the price I paid very happy with it. Very quiet blacks is the takeout and high frequencies seem to ring out longer like cymbal crashes, bass is punchier and solid and I prefer the Player mode which is direct playback to the 272, in LAN mode I couldn't hear much difference to my Synology with SSD running MinimServer, but in Direct Player out mode I heard a distinct improvement, but my Synology does not have isolation, linear PSU or fibre.

Demo one if possible and see if it benefits your set-up, it has mine but I did get a good deal which always helps. 

MartinEvs posted:

I should have explained my system more fully. I have  Unitiserve 2TB and the NDS. The suggestion was that putting the Melco between the Unitiserve and the NDS has a substantial improvement - I do also have a NAS drive but all the high quality music I put on the Unitiserve as I think that gives the best quality. I'm not worried about the NAS quality as I use the Unitiserve for serious listening and the NAS mostly as back up.

I guess my choice might be between adding a second 555PS DR to the NDS or adding the Melco.

Thanks, Martin

Before selling my UnitiServe I tested it against my Synology, and found that the Synology sounded better. Do people think the Melco is better because it's the latest expensive gadget? If I had a UnitiServe I certainly wouldn't go adding a Melco. I thought Andrew's comments above were interesting: reviewers often get very excited about the latest gadgets, but the fact that he doesn't seems to indicate that it might just be a case of Emperor's new clothes.

Thanks and yes, that was where I was coming from. The NDS with Unitiserve is I think Naims best solution and it seemed odd for a Naim dealer to be suggesting putting something like the Melco inbetween. I'm very anti latest gadgets being assumed to be best! Always a bit sceptical about anything new until tested and lived with for some time! thanks for all the advice!

Its worth a demo certainly like I said I like it, and many have been purchased, especially by Devialet owners for connection via Melco DAC output, and its won a lot of best server awards recently by some admittedly over enthusiastic reviewers.

BUT HH makes a very valid point if it isn't proving any value to you and your system, considering its cost, and you have US already in place, then an element of latest toy for the sake if could prevail. And Synology with fibre, linear PSU and isolation would be about half the cost or less of a Melco depending on what bits you bought of course, so a lot cheaper.

I bought my US-SSD for the convenience while ripping my CD library as well as the quality of its playback, and a linear PSU was a must for it at the time. Melco is also convenient and easy to use and set-up, but is it worth all that extra cost for that convenience also? 

One of the people as a driving force behind the Melco via the UK is Alan Ainslie, ex-NAIM Unitiserve developer according to online bio :

Alan Ainslie, who helped Naim design and develop the highly respected Naim Netstreams system which includes ripping hard drives NS01 & UnitiServe systems has now joined forces with Melco and is, I understand, heading their European division. Alan has helped in the design of these new players.

Also MinimServer is capable of being installed onto the Melco, and Simon who runs the MinimServer site has a Melco and admitted in his blog he can't understand why it works, but it does, when really it shouldn't, he has bought one but a long time ago mind.

As we all know, it's impossible for the NAS hardware to make any difference to how the music sounds because the audio is transmitted as a bit-perfect stream of data across a bit-perfect Ethernet connection. This has been true for every NAS or computer that I've used to run MinimServer (12 at the last count).

When I connect my player to the network using the dedicated player link of the Melco NAS, there is a very noticeable change in the clarity and transparency of the music. I hear this difference with MinimServer running on the Melco NAS and I hear the same difference with MinimServer running on some other NAS elsewhere in my network, as long as my player is connected to the network via the Melco NAS. This confirms that the benefit is caused by something in the Ethernet connection feeding the player rather than by the hardware running the UPnP server.

I can't explain this scientifically and I know that most people reading this will think I'm imagining things. This would have been my reaction as well until very recently.

For me the stillpoints isolation feet & resonance control stands are my emperors new clothes got no idea if they work and cost a fortune, but some swear by them :-)

Good luck though, the Melco certainly is dividing opinions which is good, but I got mine at a steel really price wise which was a factor in my purchase of it..... (if I didn't like it I would sell on for very little hit) but now having lived with it for a few weeks its becoming a bit of a keeper. 

Just remember if transcoding with a MinimServer, the sound presentation (punchy bass / airy treble etc) appears  to vary  subtly depending which AV libraries you have loaded in the OS and selected by MinimStreamer.

Is this also a variable with the Melco or do they hard wire specific AV libraries when the Melco acts as a media server?

this is making me feel like a right luddite! Is there somewhere I can read up/learn more about the options??!!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Just remember if transcoding with a MinimServer, the sound presentation (punchy bass / airy treble etc) appears  to vary  subtly depending which AV libraries you have loaded in the OS and selected by MinimStreamer.

Is this also a variable with the Melco or do they hard wire specific AV libraries when the Melco acts as a media server?

Simon, would you mind explaining? What is meant by AV libraries, and why are they an issue? I use minim on my nas and this is the first time AV libraries have ever been mentioned. 

Andrew Everard posted:

Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course.

Can you ealborate more on how optical isolation was achieved?

Instead of Melco I did following:

1. Enabled Flac to Wav conversion in NAS (QNAP HS-210, AssetUPnP)
2. Dedicated own switch (HP/1480/8G) close to NDS & NAS
3. Switch & NAS location -> away from 555PS or other power supplies
4. Linear power supply (HDPlex) for Switch & NAS -> note: linear needs to have enough power ~1.6x more
5. Ethernet cables for NAS & NDS matters still in my case at least: AQ Diamond & Vodka in use, I have Chord C-stream as well but prefer AQ

engjoo posted:

Andrew Everard posted:

Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course.

Can you ealborate more on how optical isolation was achieved?

if you google the magic words : everard fibre isolation. the first link should
get you to a detailed explanation.

Andrew,
have you tried different power supplies for the fiber media converter? I'm using an hdplex,
and have tried a quite expensive uptone js-2. I was a little stunned to see that
the uptone was improving things : the noise generated at the last tplink is small but not negligible

The Melco N1A is not optically isolated. The Melco is isolated from the rest of your network by eight tiny TDK pulse transformers.

Nice piece of kit.  Had one since they first came out.  And of course in my simple configuration, I no longer need a switch.

Donuk  sunny downtown York

It's just one of those things you need to try. If I'd dropped loads of wonga on an NDS & 2x555PS' I'd be very loathe to splash out more on a Melco. However, replacing my optimised-for-audio Mac Mini with a Melco N1Z, feeding my DAC via USB,  has given a substantial uplift in sound quality. I reckon if you've a Hugo or somesuch adding a Melco could be a real winner.

Forgot to add - the Melco is a great source for my MuSo!

Stringerbell posted:

engjoo posted:

Andrew Everard posted:

Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course.

Can you ealborate more on how optical isolation was achieved?

if you google the magic words : everard fibre isolation. the first link should
get you to a detailed explanation.

Andrew,
have you tried different power supplies for the fiber media converter? I'm using an hdplex,
and have tried a quite expensive uptone js-2. I was a little stunned to see that
the uptone was improving things : the noise generated at the last tplink is small but not negligible

Got it! thanks! 

I supposed the benefit comes via optical isolation from the busy part of home nextwork and it leaves the final TP link box  with just pure transceiver work from Optical to RJ45. That leaves behind the power adaptor as a possible area to improve if one intends to go further.

engjoo posted:

Stringerbell posted:

engjoo posted:

Andrew Everard posted:

Tested both the Melcos with NDS for HFN&RR, and had to conclude that a reasonably optmised QNAP with fibre optic isolation did the job just as well with much more capacity – mine's 16TB – and for much less cost. IMHO, of course.

Can you ealborate more on how optical isolation was achieved?

if you google the magic words : everard fibre isolation. the first link should
get you to a detailed explanation.

Andrew,
have you tried different power supplies for the fiber media converter? I'm using an hdplex,
and have tried a quite expensive uptone js-2. I was a little stunned to see that
the uptone was improving things : the noise generated at the last tplink is small but not negligible

Got it! thanks! 

I supposed the benefit comes via optical isolation from the busy part of home nextwork and it leaves the final TP link box  with just pure transceiver work from Optical to RJ45. That leaves behind the power adaptor as a possible area to improve if one intends to go further.

I've been intrigued that to get the signal into a fibre path you need some form of ethernet cable to convert from, so wouldn't this provide a pinch point or weak link in the chain, none of the kit mentioned has fibre out built in it is all ethernet, just a thought as I'd like to know as converting all my Cat6 runs to fibre is appealing but surely a Cat6 is in the way, even if it is of the shortest possible length, or are there ethernet adapters that plug directly to the ethernet out of the kit? (Melco to 272 for example)

Will do the usual Google search but what are others using converting their Cat6/ethernet connection/cable to fibre as the TP Link boxes takes cat6 in and convert to fibre so there would be Cat6 at each end of the two TP Link fibre boxes. I think :-)

Hungryhalibut posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Just remember if transcoding with a MinimServer, the sound presentation (punchy bass / airy treble etc) appears  to vary  subtly depending which AV libraries you have loaded in the OS and selected by MinimStreamer.

Is this also a variable with the Melco or do they hard wire specific AV libraries when the Melco acts as a media server?

Simon, would you mind explaining? What is meant by AV libraries, and why are they an issue? I use minim on my nas and this is the first time AV libraries have ever been mentioned. 

Hi HH - they are the Unix audio video libraries used for transcoding. It has come up from time to time recently

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...48#54786295709998948

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Just remember if transcoding with a MinimServer, the sound presentation (punchy bass / airy treble etc) appears  to vary  subtly depending which AV libraries you have loaded in the OS and selected by MinimStreamer.

Is this also a variable with the Melco or do they hard wire specific AV libraries when the Melco acts as a media server?

Simon, would you mind explaining? What is meant by AV libraries, and why are they an issue? I use minim on my nas and this is the first time AV libraries have ever been mentioned. 

Hi HH - they are the Unix audio video libraries used for transcoding. It has come up from time to time recently

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...48#54786295709998948

Not sure regarding Melco though Simon. I am using Twonky (upgraded version from their own 2.30 update) still and all the WAV files are on the Melco internal drives running off the Linux OS, so to guess a little I imagine the AV libraries on the Melco are from  folders being sent from the 2 x 2TB HDD Seagate drives inside where Twonky is pointed to, would that be correct?

If using MinimServer then I do understand that both Twonky and Minim run together side by side and you select which one you wish to use, but again I assume Minim is being pointed to the internal drives same as Twonky is?

Will take a look at the folder structure, the folders appear as a share on network via laptop/LAN connection to drop files into directly.

Dan, the transcoding libraries would be used the by the media server streaming modules, and so would be part of the Melco itself. It is entirely unto the design of the Melco software on how they write their code and link in libraries .. They could of course write their own AV functions but I kind of find that unlikely such is the way of writing and linking Unix based apps. What is interesting these libraries should sound identical - but they are not to my ears.. i think sometimes people gloss over the importance of the software - and in my experience software often has more of a bearing than a slightly noisy power supply in a network component.