To pre-amp or not to pre-amp

Sorry, I usualy don't respond to topics like this, but i'm the first to notice so....

Probably the Obvious thing to do is go the NAC272 route.

Streamer to connect to the network at home for digital files, and a built in dac to go with it.

Sell the DACV1 for some extra funds for the optional PSU.

That's what I would do 272/xpsdr 

Given that choice i'd also consider a Devialet 400 (2 dual monos) to drive your A9's. Digital straight in and no need for messing with pre-amps etc. Worth considering. 

Thanks for the responses.

Certainly the N272/XPSDR is an attractive option too, it provides the simplicity and convenience of a streamer and eliminates any grounding issue with using non-Naim sources. It also presents an aesthetically pleasing option too with two more Naim boxes. But while simplicity, convenience and aesthetics are not to be dismissed, does it deliver the goods from a SQ perspective compared to the two options I identify ? 

Do I understand correctly that the N272 uses the same DAC as the DAC-V1 ? I.e. In terms of DAC performance does this not fall short of either Option 1 or Option 2 above ? I am assuming here that Hugo is better which of course is a subjective view to be determined by my ears. I am also presuming that the pre-amp in the N272 is not to the standard of a 282 or 252 plus Supercap (Option 1) but again I may be wrong and should let my ears judge.

So that is a good suggestion as Option 3 :- N272 and XPSDR. To answer my doubts above and decide between these I need to audition at home.

Thanks again

I purchased a N272 and am very happy with it. The power side in my set up is via a Bryston poweramp and I have no grounding issues. 

With regards to the performance - I have not personally compared the N272 against the NAC282 - but in general it is said to offer a performance above the N202 and near to or about equal to that of a N282.

The music source is a Synology NAS, or my CD transport (not currently Naim) and my LP12.... I would say that the analogue side of my system is the weakest part - mainly due to the phono stage I am using - I am looking to change this to a either a Linn or Naim phono-amp in the future and I am sure that the analogue side of the N272 is up to delivering the improvement that a new phono stage will bring

Not sure about the non-pre amp option but I'm pretty sure the Hugo/252 is going to out perform the 272 that others have suggested... that's if pure performance is all you're concerned about. 

I ran a auralic Aries via a Hugo into a 252/sc dr/300 and the sound was very good indeed.

ive since sold my Naim kit and now run the auralic streamer via the Hugo into a vitus ri100 integrated and its in another league. Not having to worry about cables between pre/power is very refreshing 

I'm one of the 272's biggest fans, but there is no denying that the 252 will be better. Naim power amps seem to be happiest with a Naim preamp to define the signal. This, with a DAC of your choice, would seem the best solution to me. 

Great stuff. Interesting to hear differing views. Thanks all.

When I started to upgrade my Naim kit after the decision to drop CD and adopt a streaming solution I was convinced that adding a 250 to my Slim Devices Transporter would be the beat option - who needs a pre if you only have one source? After listening and talking to various folk I concluded that Naim power amps really reed a Naim pre to deliver their very best. I started with a 252/300 and now have a 552/300DR and have never looked back. Get the best preamp you can afford IMO.

Will - nice to see someone else running A9s on here - I know Spendor are not as popular as other manufacturers on here.

FWIW I run 272/555DR + 250DR into my A9s and it sounds sublime. However I'm sure a Hugo or Dave going into one of the higher end Naim pre amps would be very special (going on other posts here).

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, as I understand it, the chord dacs have very different characteristics to Naim and so what might be better for one set of ears might just be different to another, along with a much lighter wallet.

i use hugo tt as pre. it sounds beautiful, very transparent/doesnt colour the sound, renders every nuance, and is never fatiguing. has remote control. as you only listen to digital sources it may well be a good match for you to.

You have one of the best Naim amps NAP300.

It's natural partner is 252, but you will need a SuperCap for it to function. It's an expensive proposition.

N272 may be all what you need. You can turbocharge it with an external power supply. And it will still cost less than 252/SC

I am going to try running my NDX--> Berkeley Alpha DAC direct into a 250DR.  I'll report back with my findings.

Why not N272? Costs the same money as NDX.

NDX and Hugo/Ndac versus 272, who has compared?

I can't say I have compared with the 272, but I have compared with a NDS/555PSDR.. what are you looking for Dave? They (NDS and NDX/Hugo) are quite similar - but to my ears there is added feel or naturalness that I felt and heard with the Hugo...  vocals and strings just felt right and more real .. but at this level this is going to vary on the listener.

Simon

I haven't heard the 272 but many on here rate it that I respect, but I have heard the Hugo with a variety of sources compared to some very good Naim streamers and the Hugo/source generally sounded better.  I was just responding to Adam's query on the 272 and wondering if a Hugo/Ndac would be a better option with an appropriate feed including a pre loved NDX.  

I use Hugo direct into power amp. Standard Hugo so no remote vol control (never had one so not something I miss!) works very well, and misses out all the electronics of the preamp - and for me on the odd occasions when I want to use a non-digital source I unplug and subsititute a preamp - a bit of a hassle, but not often enough to worry about, instead revelling in the SQ.

However (1) how well Hugo works direct into power amp may well depend on the particular model, e.g impedance characteristics. And however (2), I understand that Naim don't recommend using Naim power amps without a Naim preamp because their preamps curtail unwanted ultrasonic frequencies whereas direct sources might not.

Halloween Man posted:

i use hugo tt as pre. it sounds beautiful, very transparent/doesnt colour the sound, renders every nuance, and is never fatiguing. has remote control. as you only listen to digital sources it may well be a good match for you to.

What amp are you using?

I'd also recommend a 272, if only as a bridge until naim refreshes their preamp line. Now that they disengaged from building loudspeakers, we might not need to wait much longer for preamps with normal line-level sensitivities, and maybe some treats from the statement S1. I also compared my previous 282 directly against my 272 and didn't make out clear differences. If you wanted to enhance on the 272's DAC (which I thought was on NDX level), you could add a chord 2Qute.

S.

Blimey! Just contemplating the buying of a N272 as a stop gap measure until something better comes along. All I know is that if I was buying a £3300 streamer-pre it would be an end game buy.

But, quite right, Will99 with his NAP300 and I are in somewhat different places. Apologies for the solipsism.

C.

Mayor West posted:

Not sure about the non-pre amp option but I'm pretty sure the Hugo/252 is going to out perform the 272 that others have suggested... that's if pure performance is all you're concerned about. 

I won't compare the different preamp types, much is on the forum already on that.. but I have learnt over the years the pre-amp is the single most important component in the audio replay chain. Get that right along with the speaker/room coupling and the rest of the system tends to get pulled along.

If you are not interested in many sources (and think carefully as much musical recording replay enjoyment can be had by savouring the relative differeing qualities of different source types ) and size/simplicity is more  or as important as absolute performance  then the hybrid DAC/preamp of the 172/272 is worth looking at.

Absolutely no 'issue' about grounding with Naim or Non Naim sources... not sure where that one got started? Just standard system build process. Talk to your dealer if unsure on how to connect components..

Simon

Kevin Richardson posted:

Halloween Man posted:

i use hugo tt as pre. it sounds beautiful, very transparent/doesnt colour the sound, renders every nuance, and is never fatiguing. has remote control. as you only listen to digital sources it may well be a good match for you to.

What amp are you using?

none, i use atc scm40a active speakers. i like the direct route and cut out all the middle men... clean and short signal path ☺

Halloween Man posted:

i use hugo tt as pre. it sounds beautiful, very transparent/doesnt colour the sound, renders every nuance, and is never fatiguing. has remote control. as you only listen to digital sources it may well be a good match for you to.

Out of curiosity, have you heard DAVE, and if so how does it compare with TT (at nearly 3x the price)