To pre-amp or not to pre-amp

tonym posted:

As one who's tried DAVE on a couple of occasions, I don't think it is the best digital sound.

What did you compare Dave with, and in what system - and what were your conclusions?

Frank Abela posted:

HH, I thought the original response where you said he couldn't do it was that the 272's output would go to the Hugo and this would act as a DAC/preamp. No need to loop back into the 272 since the Hugo has its own volume control. That would work.

Frank. 

Yes indeed, that would work. Clearly we were all talking at cross purposes, and in fact we all agree. 

Stefan Vogt posted:

 

Will, the DAVE (which you had originally considered) seems to have gone out of sight, though it’s likely the best digital sound you can get. Keen to hear back from you on this: will you do an audition?

Well I was kind of hoping that I could get away with not using a proper analogue pre-amp without compromising SQ too much, in which case my whole budget could go on the DAC. And I had thought of Dave = Hugo x 10 so was an intriguing option. But I am coming to the conclusion (without actually doing any auditions yet so this may change) that to get best SQ I need to invest my budget on a Naim pre-amp and possibly also a DAC, which eliminates Dave as an option.

Jude2012 posted:

Allan Probin posted:

Stefan Vogt posted:

I'd also recommend a 272, if only as a bridge until naim refreshes their preamp line. Now that they disengaged from building loudspeakers, we might not need to wait much longer for preamps with normal line-level sensitivities, and maybe some treats from the statement S1. I also compared my previous 282 directly against my 272 and didn't make out clear differences. If you wanted to enhance on the 272's DAC (which I thought was on NDX level), you could add a chord 2Qute.

S.

Hi Stefan,

So for those not needing all the analog inputs and record-out facilities of a 282, perhaps a 272 is a 282 (+HCDR?) "on the cheap"? Not only that, you get a nice volume control and a headphone amp and streamer thrown in for free, even if you don't use them. Plus a mix of analogue and digital inputs. Perhaps the first of the refreshed preamp line is already with us?

Very interesting, you can buy a 282 or a 272 and not use all of their features.

Yes, just like my Supernait2 ... I only use one of it's inputs and I've never used the headphone amp. It's crazy !

analogmusic posted:

That's what I would do 272/xpsdr 

+1 I had a similar dilemma and in the end plumped for the NAC272DR/NAP250DR combo with the XPS DR

To me this was a more straightforward way to go (6 boxes down to 3) and the synergry of the combo is much more than the sum of it's parts

I'm having the time of my life right now, music has never sounded better (it's quenched my upgrade bug at least for now)

Harty601 posted:

I think it is important to consider the system as a whole and not just whether one dac is "better" than another. 

Appreciating there is often a tendency to promote one's own system as the best option, I think the 272/250DR is an example of a total system being greater than the sum of its parts. I have only ever heard an NDS with an XPS, running through a 282/250 and I believe my 272/555DR & 250DR gives it a good run for the money and less boxes.

There is a digital out on the 272 so I guess you could try pushing that into a Hugo and going back into one of the analogue inputs on the 272 to bypass the internal dac??? But at that point it seems pretty pointless buying the 272.

If that were possible, I would buy one in a heartbeat.  I wonder if this feature might be possible through a software update.  It feels like overkill to buy a 282 when I will only ever have a single source.

I skipped the pre-amp and took your option 2: DAC w/ volume control and poweramp. Give it a try and buy the best DAC you can effort! 

Ralf

robgr posted:

analogmusic posted:

That's what I would do 272/xpsdr 

+1 I had a similar dilemma and in the end plumped for the NAC272DR/NAP250DR combo with the XPS DR

To me this was a more straightforward way to go (6 boxes down to 3) and the synergry of the combo is much more than the sum of it's parts

I'm having the time of my life right now, music has never sounded better (it's quenched my upgrade bug at least for now)

Just try it with Powerlines and SL speaker leads and din to xlr cable and then you will hear what it's capable of. 

As you so rightly say, it works amazingly well together and I'm constantly astonished at how good music sounds: I keep finding albums that I bought when I had 'just' a SuperUniti and PMC speakers and realising that they are so much better than I thought. 

Incidentally, your profile doesn't include any speakers; presumably you have some?

T38.45 posted:

I skipped the pre-amp and took your option 2: DAC w/ volume control and poweramp. Give it a try and buy the best DAC you can effort! 

Ralf

 

What brand cable do you use to connect DAC to amp?

I sold a CDS3 / 552 / 500 system at the end of last year and am now using 272 / XPS DR / 250 DR. They punch well above their weight.

Kevin Richardson posted:

T38.45 posted:

I skipped the pre-amp and took your option 2: DAC w/ volume control and poweramp. Give it a try and buy the best DAC you can effort! 

Ralf

 

What brand cable do you use to connect DAC to amp?

A Chord cable from DAC/RCA to the NAP250/ DIN

T38.45 posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

T38.45 posted:

I skipped the pre-amp and took your option 2: DAC w/ volume control and poweramp. Give it a try and buy the best DAC you can effort! 

Ralf

 

What brand cable do you use to connect DAC to amp?

A Chord cable from DAC/RCA to the NAP250/ DIN

 

I assume you mean RCA --> XLR.  Is this a custom order?  I can't find any option for that configure on their website. 

Kevin Richardson posted:

T38.45 posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

T38.45 posted:

I skipped the pre-amp and took your option 2: DAC w/ volume control and poweramp. Give it a try and buy the best DAC you can effort! 

Ralf

 

What brand cable do you use to connect DAC to amp?

A Chord cable from DAC/RCA to the NAP250/ DIN

 

I assume you mean RCA --> XLR.  Is this a custom order?  I can't find any option for that configure on their website. 

Yes, XLR - my dealer order it! 2RCA to one XLR (the cable is red if colour coding means something,,,)

 Edit: found it Chord Crimson!

Thank you for the information.