Speaker change, S400 to ProAc

Peter

This is not totally relevant... But I have the D40R. With 282/250.2.

I did trial the S400 against my old Proac Response 5; the 400's sounded very small in comparison. 

The D40R's that I ended up with improved on the Response 5's.

Your rig will be more than adequate. 

The difference in the D40 and D48's? I'm not totally sure on this but the importer here said to me the D48 was aiming for a tighter bottom end. My D40's can spotlight the low end on certain recordings but this might be more to do with the 250 which is warmish in the bass. 

They really strip away the layers in a recording yet they make a huge racket and really plumb the depths. They're a proper full-ranger. A great all-round speaker that look magnificent in the premium finishes (mine are rosewood). 

Placement wise they need a good 50cm at least from the back wall.

Chackie

What is wrong with your Ovators? Do they feel 'underpowered' or lacking in something?

Adam

Hi Peter,

I have auditioned the D30R on the end of an NDS/552/300 system and they were quite remarkably excellent to these ears. Notably more open, musically insightful and lifelike than the S400s that I also heard at the time. They imaged very, very well to. I rate the D30R as one of the very best that I have heard at anywhere near its price point.

The D48 will probably be similar, yet better suited to a large room such as yours.

So, you can confidently assume that your amp will be up to the job.

However, and this is a tricky one for you, I would be super cautious about buying any speaker of this calibre "blind". The D48 should be fine, but if in any doubt and without a sale or return, go for the D30R.

Hope this helps a bit, FT

Thank you for your advice.

No the S400 is OK, I just was after a " bigger sound" with more authority and realism in my room so I was looking at the S600, not going to happen now naim have stopped making them. I have always admired the ProAc sound and so I have narrowed the choice to these 2. Especially as price & availability of other speaker brands that I am interested in where I live is always tough as well.

Proacs are the best damn speakers in the world! 

I have a pair of D30 R's on the end of my 252 / 300 DR and I can't find fault with them. My room is a little smaller than yours, and if I was in your space I'd probably have the speakers firing down the 10 m length... however... there are likely good practical reasons why you aren't considering this.

Firing across the 5 M dimension the 30R's are probably the better choice... if you were going to fire down the 10 M side then I think the D 48's would work well and I don't think you would be lacking on the amp side of things to drive them.

The D30's image very well, have very authoritative well defined and tuneful bass, and a gorgeous mid-range.

Another option I did not think of is the Wilson Benesch. Square , Series 2. The Square 3 has got my interest along with ProAc, price wise these are very similar to the D30R.

I listened to my friend's D30R driven by CDS3/282/250.2 rig. One of the best sound i've ever experienced. There was a small issue with the bass, but i think it was coused either by heavy bass NAP 250.2 character or a wooden floor that was slightly swimming or i'm just used to NAP 135s bass performance that is in a different league compared to 250.2

Crackie, You list:

Hello Peter, I own the D48 but not the ribbon tweeter version. I drive it with a Jeff Rowland Continuum S2 integrated amp most of the time, but occasionally switch to the now-discontinued Musical Fidelity A1 amp (the 2008 version, with built-in DAC).

The latter is rated at only 30Wpc (some of this in class A) and it does a great job, so I would say that the D48 does not present a difficult load for any amp.

I have also driven the D48 with a Naim Supernait2 with no problems at all.

Hope this helps.

I had a pair of D20Rs and D48Rs on loan for a couple of weeks each, I've also heard them both together with the D30R in a dealers so here are my thoughts.

The D20R had a warm rich sound with a lovely smooth midrange, I think they'll partner very well with Naim gear. The bass was a little boomy in my listening room but that's a room issue. I never felt they needed more bass but on a few tracks they sounded like they had a slight bit too much bass for the room (5m x 3m firing across) with my favoured amp which I know to be a bit bass heavy anyway. I tried them with a 13W EAR 859 valve amp which drove them fine although they had less bass which was a bit slower. Still a nice sound considering the speakers are only rated down to 20W.

When I heard all three at a dealers I started with the D20R which had that same lovely smooth sound, I then tried the D30R which sounded much tighter, harsher and brighter (maybe due to the stiffer carbon fibre cone instead of fibreglass, I assume they were properly run in as they were a demo pair). I didn't listen for long as I preferred the D20R. Maybe the D30R would work better for people that prefer a brighter, faster sound but it wasn't for me. I then moved to the D48R and after only 10 minutes I had decided they were the ones for me. The sound was much more open, faster but also deeper in the bass, with much more presence and attack. To me they sounded more like the D20R in terms of balance, but with no boom, more slam and much more excitement in the vocal range.

The D48R can be driven by amps down to 10W so should be easier to drive than the D20R, although they are 4ohms unlike the other two so make sure the amp can cope with a 4 ohm load (The EAR 859 I have can and drives them fine).

After a week in my listening room I'm not taking them back. I will be returning my sub though, as they really don't need one, they supposedly go down to 20Hz and certainly deeper than I need. If I keep the sub it will be to reduce the bass on certain films not increase it. All 7 pairs of speakers I've tried previously in the room created a resonance at around 47Hz, the D48Rs don't at all which was a surprise, I have no idea why, maybe the 2 woofers cancel each other out at that frequency.

I've also tried the D2 in my room but without the ribbon tweeter they weren't in the same league for me, the balance was good but there was nothing special about them to my ears. I would have just kept my old speakers.

A brief summary, I'd recommend any of the Proac range but definitely give the D48R a listen if you have the funds, it's a class above the others I've tried.

Sorry , late reply as I work offshore.

Chris,

1. In Australia my dealer carries 0 stock - always. They have to source stock from the Australian importer - who is in New Zealand. When I ordered my S400 they pretty much come direct from the U.K. anyway , but a very speedy service when I did place my order, only a few weeks from memory. So I would imagine there will be close to 0 stock (especially in my colour choice ) even if I wanted to buy the S600 in my part of the world or perhaps some demo. stock. But this is a discontinued speaker now, and I would say all stock will be spoken for by people like us who are very, very keen to get these before they are gone forever.

2. I am not ready right now to buy anyway, still saving up the cash. S400 is a very fine speaker, however I want an upgrade, and the D48R ( or the S600) is about the level that I want to get too in order to really notice a differance with what I have now. 

To the last post above, cheers for this reply. For only a few $k more I think these are a solid choice above the D30R, if they were twice the cost I think that I would give them a miss. It sounds like this is exactly the speaker I am after. Fast, deep bass, attacking midrange but smooth in the vocals as well. Perfect for the rock music that I listen to 90% of the time.