What (in lay terms) does a Streamer do ?

Paul

The main point of a streamer in the context of your question is that it takes a file streamed over your home network from a server (which can be a US or a NAS running third party upnp server software) and delivers it either as a digital signal to an external DAC or more usually processes it in an internal DAC and then delivers it as an analogue signal to your preamplifier.

So what it does over what you have now is allow you to put the server, ie the US in your case, somewhere other than next to the rest of the Naim kit.  You can have several streamers and play different music on each or, with some limitations, multi room them playing the same thing.

You control Naim streamers with the Naim streamer app which is different to the n-serve app which you may be using at present, but does much the same thing, ie allow you to select and control the music being played.

Naim streamers can have an FM/DAB module supplied which can relatively cheaply add radio to your setup, in addition to Internet radio.

I'm not sure if this answers your question?

best

David

Thanks David,

I think I understand it. So... If I wanted to add streaming functionality, but without spending money on another DAC built into a streamer (because I already have the nDAC) what would be my options ?

cheers,

Paul

If you want to use Naim then I don't think you have any options. All Naim streamers have DACs built in. You could still use your nDAC but you would anyway have bought a DAC that you don't use.

Maybe someone else will have a suggestion.

best

David

So to give you an option, if you really want streaming then you need to back out of where you are, so you could sell the UnitiServe and the nDAC and buy a NAS for your music and an NDS. An NDX would be cheaper than an NDS, but I suspect wouldn't sound as good as the nDAC.  But having said all that, I don't have personal experience of any of these..

best

David

Paul, I started my journey with hard drive-based music as you did, a UnitiServe and a Naim Dac.  These were connected directly via a Naim DC-1 cable. And controlled with n-Serve.

As time went on, I wanted to add a second hi fi in the home.  And I wanted to get a bunch of devices out of the room with the (main) hi fi, especially the nas (used to backup the uServe and the cable modem/router). And I was willing to spend some money.

So . . . I sold off the Naim Dac and bought an NDS and 555PS for the main hi fi.  I paid my local hi fi shop technicians to run cat-5 cable from the room with the main hi fi up to my "man cave" loft where I wanted my second hi fi.  This allowed me to put all of my network-type devices in the loft; the uServe, the nas, the cable modem, a bigger switch, etc.  I bought a UnitiQute and use that in my "man cave loft."  The NDS and the Qute both are connected to the same switch by cat-5 cable as is the uServe, the nas, my Apple Time Capsule, etc.  At that point I was using the uServe as a true "server," with the NDS and Qute functioning as intended as "streamers."

The main system is now a lot simpler, and there are no hard drives or flashing lights in the room with it.  Just one cat-5 patch cable connecting the NDS to an RJ-45 wall plate where the cat-5 cable ends right behind my rack.  Much cleaner than before.  And the same servers can serve both hi fi's, simultaneously even.

I saw a review of a 300$ USD network interface that outputs usb and works with Roon.  Get a used Berkeley USB --> SPDIF and you might easily beat a NDX/S at a fraction the cost.

Hi,

Sometimes I find the suggestions from people just to go out and get an NDS off the mark!
To get a Naim multiroom setup there are much cheaper solutions!

Swap the Supernait for a SuperUnity. Now you have a stremaer/dac/pre7power amplifier in one box. You could keep the Ndac and the xps2, or put the xps on the SuperUnity. and sell the Ndac.  This setup would work as a multiroom system with the mu-sos.
The other interesting alternativ is a 272 and a power amp. I think the 272 is the first Naim box that is universally liked on the forum! Again you could keep the ndac/xps or sell the dac and put the xps on the 272.
    If you keep the dac you could use the userve/ndac as the no multiroom option, and use the streamer when you want to play indifferent rooms at the same time.
  Of course this makes most sense if the userve/ndac system  is better than the streamers in terms of sound quality.

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Hi,

Sometimes I find the suggestions from people just to go out and get an NDS off the mark!
To get a Naim multiroom setup there are much cheaper solutions!

Swap the Supernait for a SuperUnity. Now you have a stremaer/dac/pre7power amplifier in one box. You could keep the Ndac and the xps2, or put the xps on the SuperUnity. and sell the Ndac.  This setup would work as a multiroom system with the mu-sos.
The other interesting alternativ is a 272 and a power amp. I think the 272 is the first Naim box that is universally liked on the forum! Again you could keep the ndac/xps or sell the dac and put the xps on the 272.
    If you keep the dac you could use the userve/ndac as the no multiroom option, and use the streamer when you want to play indifferent rooms at the same time.
  Of course this makes most sense if the userve/ndac system  is better than the streamers in terms of sound quality.

Claus

 

You can't use an XPS or any external power supply on a SuperUniti.

I do agree that selling the nDAC is probably the way to go, but in defence of my suggestion of an NDS, I don't think a SuperUniti, a 272 or a NDX will sound better than the nDAC.  But if the OP is up for selling his SN as well, then the overall gain may be worth doing without going to an NDS.

Sorry I did not check up on the use of the xps,I was sure it could be added to the superUnity!

Hi Paul, a Streamer is a term used to render or recreate media (audio or video) that is  originated elsewhere... the term originated way back from the days of analogue piped music etc..

For us in our homes these days a streamer is a usually device that is used to recreate audio or video from a digital media server(s) elsewhere in our house, usually via a TCP/IP based network using the UPnP/DLNA, UPnP/Sonos or Apple AirPlay application protocols.

Now how the music or video is recreated or rendered is not defined.. Therefore a streamer can have its own DAC or amplifier, or it can hand that function  off to another device via SPDIF, USB or analogue signal outputs etc.. In UPnP DLNA land I think I am right in saying the term Renderer is used instead of Streamer.

Naim Streamer adopt UPnP/DLNA and support Apple AirPlay. As said above they all have an inbuilt DAC for convienience, most also have in increasing quality based on product hierarchy have a SPDIF transport output for connecting to seperate DACs. The Qb and Muso are Naim streamer examples that also have an amplifiers and speakers built in as well as the DAC.

Currently Naim don't produce a Streamer with out at least an inbuilt DAC, although for optimum quality, they do allow the DAC sections to be disabled in the settings for when used as a digital transport and vice versa.

Simon

Thanks Simon et al,

i am beginning to see what options I may have. I wonder why the US doesn't include streaming functionality ? If a £600 Qb has it, why not a £2300 US ?

paul

That will be because it is a server. 

...and not a streamer, as neither is the Qb a server...

David Hendon posted:

...and not a streamer, as neither is the Qb a server...

So a server can not be  a streamer? I do not know where that idea comes from. If you have a wired netstreams system the servers can play in sync, the problem is that technology is used by very few people, since you need special hardware and a wired house.

The problem with the servers is not that they are called servers, but the software/firmware they use are based on a scaled down Windows xp,  unlike the software used in the servers and DACs.

Claus

PBenny1066 posted:

Thanks Simon et al,

i am beginning to see what options I may have. I wonder why the US doesn't include streaming functionality ? If a £600 Qb has it, why not a £2300 US ?

paul

Because they are devices that are quite different from each other with different capabilities and functions. If you wanted to compare similar streamer devices then compare a ND5XS with a NDS.. Functionally they do the same thing, but very different in quality of how achieve those functions.

BTW from my description above a server would be an 'originator', and could provide the media for a 'streamer' to then play elsewhere on the network... These functions are determined by the application capabilities and/or the software and firmware on the device.. Therefore a genereal purpose computer could act as a server and streamer.. However in the world of hifi with respect to quality less is usually more, and so devices take on specific functions so as to be able to provide optimum sound quality.

Simon

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

David Hendon posted:

...and not a streamer, as neither is the Qb a server...

 

So a server can not be  a streamer? I do not know where that idea comes from. If you have a wired netstreams system the servers can play in sync, the problem is that technology is used by very few people, since you need special hardware and a wired house.

The problem with the servers is not that they are called servers, but the software/firmware they use are based on a scaled down Windows xp,  unlike the software used in the servers and DACs.

Claus

Of course Naim could put a server and a streamer into the same box and if they thought there was a worthwhile market for it, perhaps they would. But my point was that a server is different from a streamer and both are different from a server/streamer. The clue is in the name (or should that be Naim?)

No doubt you are right about the limitations of embedded windows XP, but the Naim position on why they haven't added streaming capability to US or HDX was set out by Phil a few months back in answer to exactly that question on this forum and it was that a server is a server and they won't add streaming to the server products in the same way as they won't add CD ripping to their streamers.

Best

David

David Hendon posted:

Of course Naim could put a server and a streamer into the same box and if they thought there was a worthwhile market for it, perhaps they would. But my point was that a server is different from a streamer and both are different from a server/streamer. The clue is in the name (or should that be Naim?)

 

They do. It's the HDX and it performs at about the same level as a bare NDX. 

I wouldn't advocate using HDX to serve a discrete streamer of cost (and sound quality with NDS) grounds but it's a cracking one box solution.

As always, your choice, your ears, your money.

I'm not so bothered in getting multi room functionality from my hifi ,I live in a small detached house, so I just turn up the volume.  Not so bothered in upgrading my Sky box to its new " fluid viewing" concept either.     For me having a unitiserve connected to the Ndac that's then connected to an integrated is all the system I need.

Harry posted:

David Hendon posted:

Of course Naim could put a server and a streamer into the same box and if they thought there was a worthwhile market for it, perhaps they would. But my point was that a server is different from a streamer and both are different from a server/streamer. The clue is in the name (or should that be Naim?)

 

They do. It's the HDX and it performs at about the same level as a bare NDX. 

I wouldn't advocate using HDX to serve a discrete streamer of cost (and sound quality with NDS) grounds but it's a cracking one box solution.

As always, your choice, your ears, your money.

Hmm.  I'm not sure that the HDX is a streamer as well as a server.  It of course includes a DAC so it can deliver a local analogue output like a streamer and yes the server part of it can serve out of other network stores, just like the US. Naim describe it as a "hard disc player" but I don't think it is a streamer in the same sense as the NDX is, is it?

best

David

"Fluid viewing"... I've watched the advert maybe fifty times and I still don't get it...   what exactly is 'fluid viewing' ?

Obviously nothing to do with having a beer whilst you're watching tele.

The HDX is not an NDX David,  as you rightly say. Although the sonic performance is on a par. Is it a dedicated streamer? Yes. It's dedicated to the server section of the HDX which is located in the same box. It won't take a stream from another server but what would be the point?

Actually, I think I tell a lie. I can't check because I don't have an HDX any more but someone else might see this and comment. The HDX will see other servers IIRC. I recall seeing my Windows music server on one of my PCs from the HDX.  Or did I? Bloody memory...

If we forget internet radio and spotify/tidal, can someone tell me the difference between playing a file from my nas, using e.g. the ndx streamer, and playing the same file from my nas using one of the Naim servers?

I have not found a way to use other upnp servers on tmy ns01 other  than the Naim upnp server that is part of the server software, but I have not looked for it.

rjstaines posted:

"Fluid viewing"... I've watched the advert maybe fifty times and I still don't get it...   what exactly is 'fluid viewing' ?

Obviously nothing to do with having a beer whilst you're watching tele.

Just the latest variant of Sky S**te!! Pretty much on a par with every car, Microsoft or perfume advert - absolutely nothing to do with the product.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

If we forget internet radio and spotify/tidal, can someone tell me the difference between playing a file from my nas, using e.g. the ndx streamer, and playing the same file from my nas using one of the Naim servers?

 

HDX versus NDX no difference to my ears.

HDX versus NDS vast improvement in favour of NDS to my ears using HDX as the server. Take out the HDX and play from NAS using Asset or Minimserver into NDS, bigger improvement still.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

I have not found a way to use other upnp servers on tmy ns01 other  than the Naim upnp server that is part of the server software, but I have not looked for it.

   

Then the HDX won't either and my memory is down to its usual standards.