Advice needed on switch from Naim to Linn

Linn has a different approach to bringing you the music. I always have thee feeling that you would be a typical Linn or a typical Naim person from the perspective how the music is being presented to you. 

I have also heard a full exakt system and have to say it was sounding quite good. But at the end of the day it's about musical presentation.

so let your ears decide. As I don't belief that Naim is so much better, it's just different and very good at the way they claim how the music should sound. Linn has the same ambition.

Bet Newbie didn't expect this much debate in response to the challenge from North of the boarder! 

You have to do an AB in the same room - ideally your home. I am not convinced of what the salesman said. 

As some has mentioned in their post, Linn and Naim has different presentation and you need to understand what you prefer. 

Newbie, only just seen your post: provocative to say the least! Gut feeling is 'don't do it'. Second feeling is 'who's going to benefit from the sale?!'; thirdly, 'compare the systems at home' and lay suspicion to rest. Linn streamers are supposed to be pretty good.

Having spent the 80s avoiding one brand systems I do find the current fashion for one brand or one box systems perplexing. SQ first.

Bert Schurink posted:

so let your ears decide. As I don't belief that Naim is so much better, it's just different and very good at the way they claim how the music should sound. 

Interesting - but does that only apply if you are using same brand speakers - as Newbie does - rather than if mixing and matching?

Sounds like too much work unless you have real issues with your current system.  Also what is the advantage of running a nice turntable into an ADC then a DAC?  Room correction?

My Linn experience is neither recent nor extensive but I used to own a Karik/Numerik and Keilidh loudspeakers.  I regard both as amongst my poorer purchases, compounded by the fact that when the laser failed on the Karik and Linn were unable to replace it despite the CD player being only a few years old their response was to offer me a very modest discount on another underrated Linn CD player.  At this point I vowed never to buy any of their products ever again even in the unlikely event they were decent.  I opted for a CDX2 which blew the Karik/Numerik out the water at a modest price hike.

Your dealer sounds like someone I know. I wonder if they are one and the same.

I used to worship at the temple of Linn in the 90s but a few years ago I heard a Uniti up against a Majik DS and the Linn, while very good, wasn't as musical.

That coupled with the fact that the design philosophy Linn have recently gone for makes upgrades very hard, meant I parted ways with a brand similar to how you're contemplating. But your dealer's specific claim is far fetched and fanatical.

I can absolutely see how someone may prefer a similarly priced Linn system. But not how you dealer claims, which are so extreme as to be disingenuous. If he was a car dealer he'd be telling you a Prius outperforms an Aston Martin. 

If you are looking for a change, I can highly recomment having a listen to the Linn (among others). But I would seriously consider using another dealer to help with this.

Is a reduction in boxes enough justification to make such a major change? I would only echo what others have said, have an extended listen. Naim and Linn follow a very different musical path and you need to be sure. I sold my previous Linn system to "downsize" and have ended up going back because ultimately it did not cut the mustard. If you downsize, will something musical always be missing?
I haven't heard any of the new Exact systems but a good dealer who stocks both Linn and Naim can offer a more balanced perspective. The dealer I have dealt with for years now stocks Naim in addition to Linn and wouldn't push one manufactuer in preference to the other.They can offer advice but ultimately let you the customer decide.

Keep you're Naim set up!

Did the Linn dealer think you had a 'difficult room' ? The Linn Space Optimisation feature may be of use in this case. If you're tempted then I'd take a demo and see which you prefer. Both companies produce excellent musical systems. 

I had the same 'useful advice' from a Linn dealer when they came demoing the LP12. They said they like Naim but I really have to change it for Linn to get the best performance. 

Suffice to say - I bought even more Naim amps and power supplies

Happy Easter!

I have to agree with Nigel-b. 

Your dealer is highly questionable here - it's a rather specious argument that buying an LP12 means the whole upstream system should be changed. Presumably that implies he sold you the wrong TT in the first place? Except of course he didn't - Naim kit has been tuned for LP12s forever, and it's a very well established combination.

My advice is to find another dealer.

I bought my LP12 from another dealer of course. My trusted NAIM dealer was more than happy to oblige

I would simply have a listen to a Linn Exakt system at the dealer of your own choice first and see if you think it a serious step up from your own system. Only then would I consider a home dem as this would save a lot of time for you and the dealer.  I, personally, prefer the Linn streamers but that is just my view.

CJ

Solid Air posted:

I have to agree with Nigel-b. 

Your dealer is highly questionable here - it's a rather specious argument that buying an LP12 means the whole upstream system should be changed. Presumably that implies he sold you the wrong TT in the first place? Except of course he didn't - Naim kit has been tuned for LP12s forever, and it's a very well established combination.

My advice is to find another dealer.

That's a debatable point.  Certainly there has been a very long history of Naim users having LP12s and in the early days there was collaboration between the 2 companies but in reality more than a few of us have found to our ears at least a more viable alternative. 

Of course in recent times Naim have voiced for digital sources. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Funny really.

There are people on this forum who seem to think that to get the best out of Naim you have to have an all-Naim system, including cables, speakers, source and DACs etc.

Presumably to get the best out of Linn it is necessary to have an all-Linn system, including Source, amp, speakers, cables etc.

QED ?

I recently read a piece recently on the Linn Forum opining that using multiple Aro arm tops to audition a range of cartridges to select a preference was a bad idea if ultimately you were going to use the chosen cartridge in an Ekos SE. I think this was wrong and missed the point of the exercise. 

However the piece went on to argue that if you use a complete Linn system you would be able to hear that the Aro was less tuneful than an Ekos SE - and while "baby" and "bath water" sprang to mind, my own experience is that the qualities of the Aro do shine less brightly the more you downstream - so post TT as an entity - new Linn (or indeed Ovator) a system. 

This also means that upgrade choices are normally constrained by the rest of your system at any given time - so a complete change from Naim to Linn (or vice versa) might be an eye-opener. 

Hold the front page - Linn dealer attempts to sell Linn system!  Shouldn't be allowed.  i wondered whether your question was tongue in cheek because the response it provoked on a Naim form was pretty much entirely predictable.  My experience is similar to others - Linn kit is first rate (I have an almost maxed out LP12) but its presentation is fundamentally different to Naim - not better or worse, different.  If you like the presentation I think in many ways Linn have tuned in to the zeitgeist, because I'm more and more seeing the benefit of the low box count, as Mrs Bluedog always has.  

The major difficulty is finding one place to go for impartial advice about ALL the options available.  I've now heard several very good reports of the Vitus integrated amp; it's fairly big, but does in one box what Naim does in four (in my current configuration). I'm delighted for the time being with my existing Naim set up, but should the upgrade bug bite again the Vitus route us there to be explored. But it's hard to find many dealers where one can make a direct comparison or get completely unbiased advice.

"Hold the front page - Linn dealer attempts to sell Linn system!  Shouldn't be allowed."

I think that misses the point (possibly deliberately for the humour) that dealers are relied upon to give impartial advice - and in this case a dealer that had already got the LP12 sale. Sadly this is not the case. I know of well-reputed dealers pushing gear that simply offers them a high mark-up, for example. And of course it should come as no surprise that a human being behaves like this. But it is not what one looks for....

As to the box count, that wasn't stated as the primary aim though the OP's wife likes the idea. I'm also interested in auditioning the Vitus gear for that reason. I likewise find the Rega Isis/Osiris combo very seductive for the same reason, not last of all since - unlike the Linn stuff - it comes pretty close to a live performance. If the OP is interested in box count above all, that would be a much better value proposition if he is happy to stream from a PC.

bluedog posted:

 I've now heard several very good reports of the Vitus integrated amp; it's fairly big, but does in one box what Naim does in four

Such kind of reports" should be taken with a large pinch of salt

Someone likes Linn, someone Vitus, some the mother, some the daughter

HMACK posted:

"I personally do not subscribe to the view that Naim streamers across the range are superior to their Linn equivalents, let alone "way superior". They are different (sometimes subtly so), but proclaiming one brand to be better than the other is very much a personal opinion. "

That's a very democratic view and is certainly valid in terms of what induces who to part with their money and keep smiling about what they get. But if you're simply comparing the two to a live performance there is no contest. The Linn has plenty of detail, space and a very smooth presentation, but is not able to capture the instrumental tone and timbre, dynamics and timing of an acoustic performance as well as the NDS. Box count is of course another matter entirely.

b_lund posted:

bluedog posted:

 I've now heard several very good reports of the Vitus integrated amp; it's fairly big, but does in one box what Naim does in four

Such kind of reports" should be taken with a large pinch of salt

Someone likes Linn, someone Vitus, some the mother, some the daughter

Very interested to read that since some of the glowing reports had whetted my appetite despite a suspicion I would find it too good to be true. What did you audition and how would you characterise the sound?

Michael_B. posted:

b_lund posted:

bluedog posted:

 I've now heard several very good reports of the Vitus integrated amp; it's fairly big, but does in one box what Naim does in four

Such kind of reports" should be taken with a large pinch of salt

Someone likes Linn, someone Vitus, some the mother, some the daughter

Very interested to read that since some of the glowing reports had whetted my appetite despite a suspicion I would find it too good to be true. What did you audition and how would you characterise the sound?

Michael - I haven't auditioned Vitus yet.  I've only recently upgraded from 1x250 to 2x135 and very much enjoying going through my LP's to hear the difference. My next upgrade will be to a Kandid and I'll probably stay with that set up for a while.  My next step at some point might be to consider a 552/300 set up, but, even at s/h prices would be coming out in the region of £13-15k, and still runs to four boxes. The a number of people, whose opinions I respect, speak very highly of the one-box Vitus amp.

b_lund may be expressing a personal opinion based on actually hearing the Vitus; but in any event it is only an opinion rather than a matter of fact. At  £9k brand new, it kind of makes sense to at least listen to the Vitus.

I'm certainly going to audition the Vitus options, but will wait until the new Dynavector amps are finally released to  go on an amplifier audition binge, when - apart from anything else - I will have finally finished the big project that has been nailing me down for the past couple of months.