heavy bass presentation on 282

It is, but this probably won't fix your problem (which seems to be a speaker / room interaction exacerbated by the change of pre).

Either - 

Go back to the 202

Sort out the speakers / room. 

You can do it. I would then suggest adding another HiCap or even better SuperCap altogether.

Jerry -

If you are working with a Naim dealer, then ask him to visit. There are several variables at work here, and having a second, experienced pair of ears can help you work through a process of elimination.

I have never heard a 202, but I do recall that upgrading from 282 to 252 resulted in a somewhat reduced, but much more controlled bass - clearer and easier to follow.

Good luck with figuring this out.

Hook

Hook posted:

Jerry -

If you are working with a Naim dealer, then ask him to visit. There are several variables at work here, and having a second, experienced pair of ears can help you work through a process of elimination.

I have never heard a 202, but I do recall that upgrading from 282 to 252 resulted in a somewhat reduced, but much more controlled bass - clearer and easier to follow.

Good luck with figuring this out.

Hook

 

Hi Hook, it is not possible to ask my local dealer to audio because all my naim gears are pre loved which were bought in personal.

I think I need to try to split both speakers little bit, also take out the 202 and do the long time audition together with 282.

Good idea Jerry.  In his book, "Get Better Sound", Jim Smith says that moving speakers together creates more warmth, while moving them apart creates a leaner sound.

But now that I think about it, his comment probably assumes you are already well away from any side wall reinforcement of bass frequencies, so I am guessing that results may vary (i.e., am guessing this standing wave effect could possibly be a stronger influence).

Hook

Jerry,

What are the dimensions of your room? Please sort out the room speaker interaction as James N suggests. Lot of replies where peoople are justifying their own gear, few where people are seeing your situation in your small room with, allegedly, warm balanced speakers.

Chris

Also, without meaning to be disrespectful - it can happen to any of us at least once, and usually does - check out all your connections as suggested previously, but also that your speakers are in phase etc.

Christopher_M posted:

Jerry,

What are the dimensions of your room? Please sort out the room speaker interaction as James N suggests. Lot of replies where peoople are justifying their own gear, few where people are seeing your situation in your small room with, allegedly, warm balanced speakers.

Chris

The funny thing is that in the only review I've read of these speakers says they have light bass and are good for small rooms. Whatever, reflex ports are the stuff of the devil. It's certainly not a problem to be solved by throwing money at.

Hungryhalibut posted

Whatever, reflex ports are the stuff of the devil.

Neat, Kudos, Dynaudio, Proac, Focal, B&W, Kef, Harbeth, Spendor, Sonus Faber, Wilson, Wilson Benesh, PMC all work of the devil ?  

Nowt wrong with ported (or indeed transmissions line speakers) - they can work very well. They just need more care with room and amp matching compared to sealed boxes which are a bit more forgiving.  

james n posted:

Nowt wrong with ported (or indeed transmissions line speakers) - they can work very well. They just need more care with room and amp matching compared to sealed boxes which are a bit more forgiving.  

Not sure that I agree re TLs. And sealed boxes simply don't do bass unless very big (or active with bass boost).

best thing of course for positioning with many speakers would be to integrate into a wall - impossible for most people, unless perhaps you have a wall to wall shelving unit. This is an approach not infrequently used in recording studios.

Hi all, I just got two 2nd hand offers (SC or 300), in order to make bass lighter and tighter, please advise which option you would prefer?

1)282/SC/200

2)282/HCDR/300

282/HCDR/300

Jerry,

I'm not in the position to give usable advice because I know nothing of your room, taste etc. But, having always been a fan of HiCaps and having just removed my HCDR from 202/NAPSC/200 and having found that the overall experience is more 'musical' and enjoyable, I endorse James N's previous suggestion: why not give it a try?

(@Chris: Yes, I am 'justifying my own gear' now, but what else can one suggest but what little he knows personally?)

Adam Zielinski posted:

282/HCDR/300

+1

Sorry to hijack the thread with my question but how 202/250.2 (or DR) would work together? I have power hungry ATC's so this has been in my mind since 282 is slightly too expensive atm.

It's not really the power amp that is critical here. 200 will handle the speakers.

The actual sound shaping takes place in the pre-amp. 282 is deemed vastly superior to 202. So I would really focus on the pre-amp - a second hand 282 can be picked up for the same price as a new 202.

In my case, the power amp is critical. That's why I'm asking. SN2 + HCDR does good job at the moment but I can hear that the speakers would benefit from beefier poweramp. I don't consider 200 beefier than SN2 so I don't want to go 282/200 route. 250.2 is minimum so I was just wondering if 202 would be even on the SN2 level driving it. I would use HCDR for the 202 of course. Also this thread makes me little cautious about 282 because more bass is definitely not something I need at the moment. 

Second hand is cheaper way to get 202 also. There's even one s/h 202 for sale in Finland.

Well Patu.... How can you make your mind up if you have already made a decision?  If you are looking for a re-affirmation that 202 will be good for you, I don't think you will find it. The only way is to listen to for yourself and decide which amp you prefer. It's like describing a scent - I prefer roses, but you may like  lilies more. So which flower smells better?

You have to understand and be very clear about one thing - 282 is not about more bass or less bass versus 202. It is a fundamentally better pre-amplifier. It extracts more from the music, but demands an equally talented source.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well Patu.... How can you make your mind up if you have already made a decision?  If you are looking for a re-affirmation that 202 will be good for you, I don't think you will find it. The only way is to listen to for yourself and decide which amp you prefer. It's like describing a scent - I prefer roses, but you may like  lilies more. So which flower smells better?

You have to understand and be very clear about one thing - 282 is not about more bass or less bass versus 202. It is a fundamentally better pre-amplifier. It extracts more from the music, but demands an equally talented source.

Thanks for the input Adam. I haven't made up my mind. That's why I'm asking if people have experience with that combo. My setup sounds very good atm but you're always thinking about the next move. It's part of the hobby. Currently I'm that far in the experimenting that I know that the next real upgrade will cost big money. 

Patu posted:

Currently I'm that far in the experimenting that I know that the next real upgrade will cost big money. 

From my own experience: I never imagined I'd be spending that amount of money on audio-playback. But... my God it sounds good. And in a twisted and perverted way - it is worth it. As soon as you hear some of the gear in full swing, you soon forget how much those black boxes cost 

Adam is talking a lot of sense here about the relative merits of the 282 and 202. Also it is fair to say that the 250 pre DR has more bass than a 200.

ATB Ray

Adam Zielinski posted:

Patu posted:

Currently I'm that far in the experimenting that I know that the next real upgrade will cost big money. 

From my own experience: I never imagined I'd be spending that amount of money on audio-playback. But... my God it sounds good. And in a twisted and perverted way - it is worth it. As soon as you hear some of the gear in full swing, you soon forget how much those black boxes cost 

Me neither when I started the hobby 16 years ago. When you reach that certain point, it really gets expensive to achieve even the small improvements and that's the point where you start thinking if it's really worth it. IMO the first 80-90% are reachable by somewhat reasonable price but the last 10-20% are the ones which cost you an arm and leg. Of course there's no such thing as 100%, this is a never ending journey. 

But if we get back to the topic, the bass heavy presentation really tells about unbalance in the system. In my case (the added PSU for nDAC) I guess it was the rest of the chain that couldn't keep up (SN2 + HCDR) or then I just have too big speakers for my room. With bare nDAC, the sound is in balance and I still don't feel that the bass would fall short. Until I upgrade the pre + amp section, I see no point in adding PSU for the nDAC. And the next step which really would take me much further (this is how I feel) is 282/250DR. 202/200, more of a sidestep I think and 282/200 - I just don't feel it since what I really want is the beefier poweramp. 

There's one s/h 250.2 available in Finland. I might try that one next with SN2 as a preamp.

Patu - My music room system seems to be similar to yours. For me adding an XPS to the nDAC was more about clarity and refinement. It did not really add any bass to it as such. 

Have a look at your room acouostics - if your bass is booming, that's the room resonance which needs to be addressed. If there is a lot of bass, but it is controlled - well - your sources are simply digging it up from the recordings

i think your logic or aquiring 250DR first is quite good. It will be a good stepping stone to 282. Minid you: 282 with 250 will require at least 1 HiCap to function, since the 250 dos not supply any power to pre-amp sections.

Adam

badlands posted:

Hungryhalibut posted

Whatever, reflex ports are the stuff of the devil.

Neat, Kudos, Dynaudio, Proac, Focal, B&W, Kef, Harbeth, Spendor, Sonus Faber, Wilson, Wilson Benesh, PMC all work of the devil ?  

I agree with HH, where the reflex port is active in the audible range it has nearly always been bad news IME.. If the reflex port is below the audible range, as in much larger designs then yes I have heard them work well.

i think I am right that PMC use a transmission line port, and not reflex ports.. These operate very differently.. Also ATC use reflex ports in some of their larger professional designs but I believe at below the operating bandwidth of the speaker so as not to compromise the audible performance.