Amplifier advice for Naim novice

Yes, grounded to the Uphorik. My Uphorik is connected by RCA -> DIN and 272 is set to floating

ac16161 posted:

I continue to dither because while the 282 sounds amazing, it is functionally pretty antiquated in terms of the control interface and ease of integration in a complex system in a way that is also family friendly. If there were a 282 in the Naim range that had a few modern touches in terms of the control interface I would go down the full-separates path in an instant. It's a shame as for someone like me who is looking to start a Naim system from scratch, I just assumed there would be a functionally modern dedicated pre-amp in the range, but at present that's not the case. I must be getting on, my wife can't believe I've started to think about convenience in hi-fi design after all these years.

Ahh yes - but for the more performant preamps you want to keep complex noisy control electronics to a minimum  ... having said that the control logic in all the classic range preamps is pretty powerful and advanced now  when you run the automation connected from  the streamer - that way you have effectively full control of the preamp and associated automation capability under control of the Naim app via the streamer (where the noisy electronics can be better handled) - its very effective indeed. Naim have a habit of reinventing their products - and the Streamer automation with the Classic range preamps (NACs) is pretty impressive.... and your streamer display can indicate in big green letters the source selected on the preamp using whatever text you want - nice... 

ac16161 posted:

I continue to dither because while the 282 sounds amazing, it is functionally pretty antiquated in terms of the control interface and ease of integration in a complex system in a way that is also family friendly. If there were a 282 in the Naim range that had a few modern touches in terms of the control interface I would go down the full-separates path in an instant. It's a shame as for someone like me who is looking to start a Naim system from scratch, I just assumed there would be a functionally modern dedicated pre-amp in the range, but at present that's not the case. I must be getting on, my wife can't believe I've started to think about convenience in hi-fi design after all these years.

The control interface is really via the streamer, rather than the preamp, once 'system automation' is set up. In practice, control via the Naim app is virtually identical (apart from some very minor differences to the volume control) weather you choose an all-in-one device (172, 272, Uniti) or separate streamer (ND5, NDX, NDS.) If sound quality is your first priority, I wouldn't worry about it.

I can confirm - once the system automation is enabled via a streamer (e.g. NDX) pre-amp can be fully controlled from say an iPad - source selection, mute, volume, etc etc. The interface is almost the same as for the uniti range.

For combining the Naim boxes with a home cinema, I can recommend a Logitech universal remote control. That is how we operate our living room setup, with complex start up seqences like: start av pre-amp, switch av power amp on, select source input, switch on cable tv, power on TV, switch to an appropriate input, select av input on 282 and unmute 282 - all with a touch of one 'button'. 

In regards to the 282, yes some claim its out of date technology, so they'd go streamer but some think (myself included), in 10 years time I can still use my 282 without issues (will still accept my analogue source & what ever digital sources I run), with the 272, can't say for sure.  Maybe digital streaming will have moved on to something else, making the 272 obsolete.  So I'm in the camp, that a basic or "old tech" pre is actually more future proof.

Another thought, while the Naim pre's may have a refresh in the not so distant future (you'll see posts from 5 years ago on the forums thinking the same & it's yet to happen), typically Naim makes the upgrade available to current owners, if the parts are interchangeable.  So if they revise their pre's, there's a chance you can still update to the latest tech.

Now they weren't in the same system (272 combo was actually more expensive speakers, though same brand as I use & Super Lumina cables), but I wasn't  as impressed by the 272/XPS/250DR combo vs my home setup of 282/HiCAP DR/200 (& now 250DR).  

Daren - I tend to agree with your summary - but I would not call the Naim preamps basic at all - the analogue electronic engineering that has gone into them is pretty incredible to achieve the performance they do - and is very current - and will remain current long after many digital designs have bitten the dust... which I think is the point you were making.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Daren - I tend to agree with your summary - but I would not call the Naim preamps basic at all - the analogue electronic engineering that has gone into them is pretty incredible to achieve the performance they do - and is very current - and will remain current long after many digital designs have bitten the dust... which I think is the point you were making.

Simon

 

Yes Simon, by "old tech" or basic I just ment lacking the digital circuits, streaming capability, fancy screen etc.  Not that the circuits/design of the 282 was basic/ out of date, though I'm sure you already knew that & were just making it clear for any casual readers of the forums

You add the "new technology" (NDX etc) to the "old", and you operate most things (volume) on the pre-amp with simple cable connection between the two. Best of both worlds. 

What does a XPS DR adds to a 272 and is it only to the digital part or is it also a big (and worth off 3750£) step up to the analog section?

@Analogmusic
Is my grounding setup correct like this

XPS (or any power supply) is a fundamental part of the upgrade path of NAIM. It enhances pretty much everything - mostly it focuses on the analogue section.

The best way to describe it is: it takes a very good streamer / pre-amp and turns it into an outstanding one.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Daren - I tend to agree with your summary - but I would not call the Naim preamps basic at all - the analogue electronic engineering that has gone into them is pretty incredible to achieve the performance they do - and is very current - and will remain current long after many digital designs have bitten the dust... which I think is the point you were making.

Simon

 

Hi Simon, I never properly heard my 282 until I solved that setup issue you mentioned to me, and nowadays with the the Hugo as a source, the performance is truly incredible, jaw dropping good. The 282 sounds a massive step up compared to the 202, no comparison.

Can you share some details of what you mean by the analog eletronic engineering that has gone into them and what makes them incredible.

The comments regarding system-automation via the NDX on a 282 are helpful. Perhaps one last question on the 282 - is it correct that only the AV DIN input can be configured for AV bypass, and that the RCA connections cannot? Need to determine if my fancy phono leads from my surround amp's front pre-outs need an adaptor or I need a new lead.

analogmusic posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Daren - I tend to agree with your summary - but I would not call the Naim preamps basic at all - the analogue electronic engineering that has gone into them is pretty incredible to achieve the performance they do - and is very current - and will remain current long after many digital designs have bitten the dust... which I think is the point you were making.

Simon

 

Hi Simon, I never properly heard my 282 until I solved that setup issue you mentioned to me, and nowadays with the the Hugo as a source, the performance is truly incredible, jaw dropping good. The 282 sounds a massive step up compared to the 202, no comparison.

Can you share some details of what you mean by the analog eletronic engineering that has gone into them and what makes them incredible.

 

 

Hi analogmusic, glad its sounding great for you - its rewarding when it all comes together. The thoughts I had in my mind when i was referring to analogue electronic engineering were around the ground planes and grounding track design on the PCB and componentry to give the performance they do in terms of very low ground plane modulation noise. I am sure there are oodles of other items but that one to me is pretty effective and kind of feels very Naim.

Simon

I compared the 272 and 282 when I bought the 282 about 10 months ago. At the time, it was strange not buying a relatively expensive item without a fabulous OLED display - SQ won the day for me.  

I also agree with the points made about the longevity of the 282 over products that combine digital and analogue elements in one box.

Its great that the 282 (like other Naim products other than power amps or supplies) have the feature to switch off the display when not being controlled. 

Jude 

ac16161 posted:

The comments regarding system-automation via the NDX on a 282 are helpful. Perhaps one last question on the 282 - is it correct that only the AV DIN input can be configured for AV bypass, and that the RCA connections cannot? Need to determine if my fancy phono leads from my surround amp's front pre-outs need an adaptor or I need a new lead.

That is correct.

You will need RCA > DIN cable (directional).
I can recommend Chord Anthem Tuned Array - takes approximately 2 weeks for it to be made. It's relatively expensive for an interconnect. If your source does not merit such a cable, any cheaper Chord RCA > DIN cable will do.

Adam

As longer I've listening to the 272, as more I like it over my 282/Hicap DR!

When I'm using my LP12 as a source, I think the analog section of 272 is better than the one I've got with 282/Hicap DR - much better soundstage. When I'm playing FLAC over UPNP Media Service, then I can understand as few said, that running NDX with 282 ist a step up over 272.

My main source will stay the LP12 with Uphorik, so I will sell 282/HiCap DR and maybe use the money I've got to upgrade my 272 by an additional PSU like XPS DR or 555PS (non DR).

Maragoo posted:

 I've got to upgrade my 272 by an additional PSU like XPS DR or 555PS (non DR).

If N272, with an external PSU, behaves anything like NDX, XPSDR is all the power supply you will ever need.
During my tests, adding 555PS to the NDX actually unbalanced the system. XPS was a much better match for the NDX.

Another Naim Usere close to where I'm living is selling his 555PS and maybe I will have the ability to make a test in my system with it. It has to be a huge improvement to 272 without PSU as an additional PSU costs more than a bare 272