NDX versus LP12

Probably better off on the Linn forum than here, but recent developments to my Linn have included a Kore sub - chassis and the Lingo 3. I sort of briefly auditioned a Radikal/ Urika deck and was very impressed but could not afford it. Putting a lp12 on the top rack of a Fraim is not something I have tried. I doubt you will get a huge uplift form lingo 1 to 3, more important perhaps is where you have it in relation to the amps - as far away as possible is best, the Lingo really likes isolation. You say you have the Krystal MC so I assume it must be fairly new. It may still be running in. My Dynavector xx2 is five months now and still improving.

When was Lingo 1 last serviced? Has your deck got a Cirkus? Are you satisfied with the servicing that is done on your Linn?

Chris

I've put it on this forum to start with as I believe the top options are Fraim and Supercap for the Prefix but happy to hear alternatives.

My LP12 full spec is Ekos, Krystal, Lingo 1, Cirkus, Kore. All fully serviced / installed within last 3 months so nothing to do here.

Armageddon!!!

Thanks for explaining. That Linn should swing.

C.

Even an early LP12 without all the latest gubbins and running a pre-Cirkus bearing should have balls and presence aplenty, so long as it's properly setup. However, that being so, adding a Supercap to the Prefix and changing to an Armageddon from the Lingo may well give you just what you are looking for.  Caveat is that I don't know the Krystal MC. Is it a Lyra-type balance or something more earthy and grunty than that?

There is good vinyl records there is also low-quality vinyls. Your cartridge Kristal is going to improve.
At first the digital sound is flattering it is broadcast at high level.
It is then possible that you go to prefer analog more natural vinyl records.

Urm interesting.  Can't comment on what the various upgrades to an LP12 might do but my Xerxes/Artemiz/Dyn Rue was playing us the Pretender by Jackson Browne last night in a way that not even my CDS3 could really get close.   However, will say that giving my Superline it's own Hi-Cap rather than running of te 282 really was an upgrade so a SC on the pre-fix might help.

Regards,

Lindsay

Overprint

Interesting observations - LP12 should outperform NDX is most instances. Some observations form my own experience:

• Urika / Radikal is a huge improvement over the standard Linn combo. Power supply cable on Radikal does change the sound. Standard LINN cable is quite good. PowerLine makes it sound darker and meatier, but not necessarily more musical.
• Baseboard - Trampolin insulates the LP 12 so well, you can practically place it anywhere. Putting it on a glass shelf actually upsets it.

Adam

The Lingo 3 is a huge step up from the Lingo 1. Obviously not as big as the Radikal but having moved from Lingo 1 to 3 I was very surprised at the difference. 

Thought - Does te Armageddon still only play 33?

I went from Prefix/Supercap/Lingo 2 to Radikal/Urika (albeit adding a Keel at the same time) and found it better, with 1 fewer box & Fraim level too. The LP12 certainly out-performs my NDX, and also my CD555/555PSDR. 

Neil

My basic 1987 LP12 still blew away my NDS.  I'd say a service is required.

Hi Overprint,
You pose an interesting question and a slightly surprising one.  Although my most recent turntables are from Vertere and Roksan, I have owned 2 LP12s in my time and had both of them serviced and well maintained.

A well maintained LP12 of your spec should, as others have said, have balls and presence aplenty.  It should leave the NDX far behind in all respects other than possibly pitch stability.  Given that this is not the case for you, then it is most likely that something is off with the deck, its Lingo or the installation (including wires, connections etc.) 

So, I would start with getting it inspected & serviced by a Linn specialist.  By all means change other parts of your system but you will keep coming back to this until you are 100% sure that the LP12 is spot on.  I recently listened to a Radikal/Ulrika/Dynavector XX-2 spec LP12 and thought that it sounded a bit so-so until we then tried an old Linn Axis with Akito arm, which trounced the much higher spec LP12.  After a visit to a Linn specialist, the LP12 came back feeling (and sounding) much better.

Once you are confidently on solid ground with the LP12's set up, then any of your options 2, 3 or 4 should make the situation even better.

Hope this helps, FT

Assuming you have had your LP-12 overhauled recently (stripped down to an empty chassis and rebuilt), I'd question the Target stands. TTs are surprisingly sensitive to the surface they sit on. See what you can borrow and audition.

If you have room and can find an old Mana TT stand, that would isolate your TT from just about everything. (Stay tuned for the imminent flame war.)

I heard next to no difference between the Weekes-modified (look it up!) Lingo 1 and the Lingo 3. Probably my most disappointing upgrade.

Can you A/B the same music on vinyl and CD? That's when I realized my TT blew my CDS3/555PS into the weeds.

Fred11 posted:

Armageddon!!!

Valhalla!!!

Megiddo!!! - Due out soon.

John.

But seriously though OP - what is the spec of your LP12? Competently set up; it should wee all over an NDS; let alone an NDX. Do you have a Tramp2 base for better decoupling/isolation?

Even the new 'basic' Majik sub-chassis (retro-fittable) has given the LP12 a new lease of life. It's a fabulous cost-effective upgrade for older modest-spec Linns.

John.

I recently tried my Majik on top of my fraim and was astounded at the improvement against my target wall shelf. 

If you have a fraim already I would definitely spend some time and try it on there. 

May deck has just gone to my dealer for Radikal, Kore, Akito and Krystal upgrades.

I think the Radikal makes the deck personally but that's my ears I suppose. 

Hi,

A good service is required -- get the Linn set up - checked>> to start with>> then it will sing

I suspect that Fraim will do nothing to redress the balance between your LP12 and NDX, but only because it's going to benefit both sources, so well worth investigating even if it doesn't solve any specific problem with your turntable. For that, I would get a dealer to check the TT setup. 

It's been said before, but I'll say it again... if your LP12 doesn't sound a whole lot better than your NDX, or as some would say "blow it away", then your LP12 is in serious trouble and is in need of urgent care.  

I speak for both my 1988 LP12 / Ekos 1 / Lingo1 and my 2015 Klimax LP12 which replaced it, both have a clearly windy affect on my NDS.

Thanks to everyone who contributed. After some experimenting, I reckon it's a siting issue and the racks. Played around a bit last night particularly with where the Lingo is and am making progress. It's definately not a service issue as the LP12 had a thorough one done over Christmas when new cartridge and sub chassis added. I also realise the vast range in recording quality there is on some of my LPs which might be contributing to the sound coming out the speakers.

I've just though of one more thing:

Is there any way you can plug your Lingo into a totaly separate mains spurr, with no power strips etc etc.? Just directly into a wall. This should give you a bit of an improvement as well as to how the LP12 performs.

It is not unheard of that Linn power supplies and Naim power supplies don't get along too well if plugged into the same wall socket.