New Xps dr or Expensive Hi-fi Rack?

What rack are you using now? If it's a non-audio one that's doing a poor job, the improvements from a dedicated rack are going to be substantial, and the more you climb the hifi ladder (e.g. by adding an XPS!) the more you'll lose out by having a poor rack. With patience, there are sometimes good deals to be had on used racks, with few of the risks associated with buying used electronics re. service history etc.

I bought a used 5-shelf Isoblue rack in great condition for £350 - less than 10% of the cost of a new XPS DR. If you're after full Fraim, on the other hand........ 

Edit - just noticed you say you have an Apollo rack, don't know too much about them, but aren't they an old steel frame design? 

XPS DR in order to trully utilise your CDX2. The uplift is monutmental.

Upgrade number 2: 2nd HiCap, or just go for a SuperCap.

Ugrade number 3: Cables - possibly SuperLumina

Upgrade number 4: Fraim

Adam

Hi Chrissu, the appolo is certainly not a high end rack, bought from a hi fi dealer about 7 years ago, but does a reasonably good job, so if I was to upgrade I would probably go for a naim fraim, just not convinced it would equal the improvement the xps dr would make?

Adam Zielinski posted:

XPS DR in order to trully utilise your CDX2. The uplift is monutmental.

Upgrade number 2: 2nd HiCap, or just go for a SuperCap.

Ugrade number 3: Cables - possibly SuperLumina

Upgrade number 4: Fraim

Adam

Hi Adam, Interesting that you put the fraim in 4th place, I'm certainly thinking very similar.

Regarding cables I'm using the TQ Ultra blacks, which are very impressive, so I'm not planning to change those any time soon unless some silver diamond comes along...

Hi Wenger. I'm in the situation where I really want an XPS DR for my CDX2. But at the moment I'm not using any rack. My gear it sat on my MDF TV unit in the lounge. it sounds great, so I do wonder what a decent rack would also bring to the party? 

I guess the pros and cons here are subjective, as always, as well as being dependent on the room, etc. But given that you don't appear to have a spare shelf on your current rack.....?!? 

I have an option of more shelves if required, I have a 2nd appolo rack that could be utilised.

wenger2015 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

XPS DR in order to trully utilise your CDX2. The uplift is monutmental.

Upgrade number 2: 2nd HiCap, or just go for a SuperCap.

Ugrade number 3: Cables - possibly SuperLumina

Upgrade number 4: Fraim

Adam

Hi Adam, Interesting that you put the fraim in 4th place, I'm certainly thinking very similar.

Regarding cables I'm using the TQ Ultra blacks, which are very impressive, so I'm not planning to change those any time soon unless some silver diamond comes along...

You have a decent rack. I think Power Supplies are now more important and will simply give you a bigger 'bang for your buck' as they would say across the pond.

I like TQ cables Especially the Ultra Blacks - I'd say they are very close to SuperLumina in terms of performance.

Finkfan posted:

Hi Wenger. I'm in the situation where I really want an XPS DR for my CDX2. But at the moment I'm not using any rack. My gear it sat on my MDF TV unit in the lounge. it sounds great, so I do wonder what a decent rack would also bring to the party? 

I think that helps answer my question, if your set up sounds exceptional on mdf, would a significant outlay on a rack harvest the same result of an xps dr, which every time I have had a demo, has really impressed..

Adam Zielinski posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

XPS DR in order to trully utilise your CDX2. The uplift is monutmental.

Upgrade number 2: 2nd HiCap, or just go for a SuperCap.

Ugrade number 3: Cables - possibly SuperLumina

Upgrade number 4: Fraim

Adam

Hi Adam, Interesting that you put the fraim in 4th place, I'm certainly thinking very similar.

Regarding cables I'm using the TQ Ultra blacks, which are very impressive, so I'm not planning to change those any time soon unless some silver diamond comes along...

You have a decent rack. I think Power Supplies are now more important and will simply give you a bigger 'bang for your buck' as they would say across the pond.

I like TQ cables Especially the Ultra Blacks - I'd say they are very close to SuperLumina in terms of performance.

 

I noticed you used the term ' monumental' regarding the xps dr, I've never heard that said with reference to a Rack, unless you can buy a rack that has been d'red....

When I eventually move my setup into my "office" I'll be shopping for a rack. I wonder if my local dealer will send 2 or 3 options for me to demo? 

That's why I listed FRAIM as the last upgrade. Hopefully there will be a DR'd version by then

Finkfan posted:

When I eventually move my setup into my "office" I'll be shopping for a rack. I wonder if my local dealer will send 2 or 3 options for me to demo? 

Ask for 5 options and you might get two...

In suggesting the rack upgrade option, I'm certainly not anti-XPS; my only experience of it is with a 272, which I thought was absolutely transformed by it. However, I seem to recall reading of at least one forum member who prefers the CDX2 without an external PSU, so I can only suggest that you need to listen and decide for yourself. A home demo of an XPS might not be too much to ask - but I guess a Fraim home demo might be more difficult. 

ChrisSU posted:

In suggesting the rack upgrade option, I'm certainly not anti-XPS; my only experience of it is with a 272, which I thought was absolutely transformed by it. However, I seem to recall reading of at least one forum member who prefers the CDX2 without an external PSU, so I can only suggest that you need to listen and decide for yourself. A home demo of an XPS might not be too much to ask - but I guess a Fraim home demo might be more difficult. 

Agree with Chris - home dem and sign off in your system with your ears is essential. I had a cdx2 with a supernait and tried an xps2 (pre dr days) and whilst there was an improvement I didn't feel it warranted the outlay. Many other people here love what the xps does for the cdx2 and have gone for it.

ChrisSU posted:

In suggesting the rack upgrade option, I'm certainly not anti-XPS; my only experience of it is with a 272, which I thought was absolutely transformed by it. However, I seem to recall reading of at least one forum member who prefers the CDX2 without an external PSU, so I can only suggest that you need to listen and decide for yourself. A home demo of an XPS might not be too much to ask - but I guess a Fraim home demo might be more difficult. 

I've heard the xps dr a couple of times,most recently at the Bristol show, very impressed on each occasion, as you rightly say a home demo is probably the way forward, as for the rack it's probably a visit to nearest dealer...

wenger2015 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

In suggesting the rack upgrade option, I'm certainly not anti-XPS; my only experience of it is with a 272, which I thought was absolutely transformed by it. However, I seem to recall reading of at least one forum member who prefers the CDX2 without an external PSU, so I can only suggest that you need to listen and decide for yourself. A home demo of an XPS might not be too much to ask - but I guess a Fraim home demo might be more difficult. 

I've heard the xps dr a couple of times,most recently at the Bristol show, very impressed on each occasion, as you rightly say a home demo is probably the way forward, as for the rack it's probably a visit to nearest dealer...

I've been testing XPS DR and 555PS DR for the last 3 weeks (although with an NDX and NDS). They transform the source.

I now see an XPS as an indispensible part of the NDX / CDX2. Although I actually prefer my CDX2 feeding into nDAC and adding XPS to my nDAC.

Will be placing an order this week - most likely for the 555PS as the NDS (also on loan) is addictive.... My poor kidneys

Adam Zielinski posted:

wenger2015 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

In suggesting the rack upgrade option, I'm certainly not anti-XPS; my only experience of it is with a 272, which I thought was absolutely transformed by it. However, I seem to recall reading of at least one forum member who prefers the CDX2 without an external PSU, so I can only suggest that you need to listen and decide for yourself. A home demo of an XPS might not be toao much to ask - but I guess a Fraim home demo might be more difficult. 

I've heard the xps dr a couple of times,most recently at the Bristol show, very impressed on each occasion, as you rightly say a home demo is probably the way forward, as for the rack it's probably a visit to nearest dealer...

I've been testing XPS DR and 555PS DR for the last 3 weeks (although with an NDX and NDS). They transform the source.

I now see an XPS as an indispensible part of the NDX / CDX2. Although I actually prefer my CDX2 feeding into nDAC and adding XPS to my nDAC.

Will be placing an order this week - most likely for the 555PS as the NDS (also on loan) is addictive.... My poor kidneys

Are you still changing your speakers as well?  If your going to sacrifice a kidney......

Not enough kidneys at the moment 

Somehow I think my current Monitor Audio GX300 got scared I amy want to get rid of them.. They do sound wonderful recently.. So upgrading sources at the moment.

That's one good thing about the forum, you might be thinking a certain way and then a really good suggestion comes along.......

Wenger, mate I have a HiFi Rack Ltd system, HOWEVER I got in touch with Audio Teckne Audio in Japan, they make very high end amps ect. I bought Carbon Blocks made of carbon fibre for about 15 pound each I think, and put them under my rack legs AND speakers spikes, and I found the improvement was better than the Chord Silent Mounts! The owner explains on his site the benefits, the nanotubes absorb vibration and unlike the Silent Mounts, don't leave a hole in the midbass area. For me, they have been the bargain of all time. They come in different sizes and can go under each component, (I don't have the space on each shelf) ...Just ba thought.

If the Apollo rack is made of steel change it now before the XPS/555ps, a cdx2 doesn't time properly on a steel rack (no idea why this is). I went from steel to Fraim Lite and it was much more satisfying to listen to though I've since been converting to full fat Fraim and wish I'd bought it in the first place. The power supply does great things, particularly the 555ps but get the fundimentals sorted first and that means the rack.

The PS sat on top of the CDX2 can't be doing it any good at all, can you squeeze it onto the shelf with the PSC and Hicap?

You seem a bit over speakered so I hope your ready for the upgrades in the rest of the system that they'll demand.

As good as the XPSdr is, I think upgrades need to be done in the right order that builds a foundation for things to come. With that in mind, an upgrade of the rack will stand you in good stead for whatever changes you make in the future (except for the ones that push the number of boxes onto a second rack).

The level of gear you have is already sensitive enough for a move to a better rack to make a sizeable improvement. Just please, whatever you do, get it off the casters. These largely negate much of the benefit of a rack since, if the floor decoupling isn't as good as possible, the rest of the racks isolating benefits are greatly diminished.

Also bear in mind that a rack is a great value for money upgrade. Not just for the reason that it stands all future equipment upgrades in good stead without needing to be replaced or serviced, but because it imparts an audible benefit to everything on it. An XPSdr will benefit the CDX2, but the rack will benefit everything. Even at the lofty prices of Fraim, that logic presents some VFM in my opinion.

I find it rather hard to understand how someone has a £9,000 pair of speakers, with a bare NDX as the source, with all the electronics sitting on a ropey old rack that doesn't even have spikes, but has castors. I'd say get a decent rack this very day. In fact, given that there is a turntable involved too, get two small racks and have them side by side. Sure, Fraim will cost the best part of £5,000 - Isoblue, Hutter or Quadraspire SVT would be cheaper - but a good rack is an essential foundation of the system. Think of a rack upgrade as the same as a new black box. In this case I suspect that a good rack will be far more significant than an XPS. 

Even though I've 'liked' your post, Nigel, I can understand how someone can end up with a pair of £9K Focals because they are out there when people walk into dealers. Besides, not everyone is coming to our hobby with our greybeard mentality, weaned as we were on Sondeks, a NAD3020 and a pair of Diamonds.

But yes, Wenger, rack.

Chris