my dilema.....Focal Sopra N272/250DR/NAC A5

I found the 272/300DR to be a bit of an untamed beast - exciting, but unrefined. What exactly are you hoping to gain from this change? Adding an XPS to a 272 is a big step up, I'd do that first. 

I've heard the difference between a 250DR and a 300DR on a pair of Sopra 2s and the performance jump was big.  But balance in a system is very, very important and I would be inclined to look at options to improve things earlier in the chain too, e.g. putting a PSU on the 272.

Heard the Sopra 2 being driven by a 272 and a 250dr at the Bristol show earlier this year I was very impressed  on how well the 250 dr sounded but Naim demonstrated what a power supply and cable change brought to the system. I would consider this route first and demo what a power supply can do particularly a later dr spec.

I've also heard the Sopras driven by the 250dr and 300dr back to back and imho the difference  was less than I expected and, for me, not worth the additional cost.  The 250dr was impressive I thought and excellent vfm.  The preamp was a 282 rather than a 272 though.

Wrong way wround - improve your source first. XPS on N272 is an absolute must - transforms it.  You can also try 555ps on your preamp. But I would hazard a guess XPS DR will bring the balance that you may miss now,

You must also think in terms of a system synergy - why put a power amp that is double the price of a source? Certain components were really designed to work together.

ChrisSU posted:

I found the 272/300DR to be a bit of an untamed beast - exciting, but unrefined. What exactly are you hoping to gain from this change? Adding an XPS to a 272 is a big step up, I'd do that first. 

Well to be fare my speakers are fairly new and it's been over 3months since I had speakers " Focal Aria 926" on my gear. Maybe I'm looking for music reproduction not highend hi-fi and should give these plenty of hours before I gripe

Adam Zielinski posted:

Wrong way wround - improve your source first. XPS on N272 is an absolute must - transforms it.  You can also try 555ps on your preamp. But I would hazard a guess XPS DR will bring the balance that you may miss now,

You must also think in terms of a system synergy - why put a power amp that is double the price of a source? Certain components were really designed to work together.

+1

I totally agree with the above, I have XPSDR-N272 250DR PMC 26, I will soon be upgrading to 300DR having done an audition recently. By adding the 300DR instantly there is a greater insight and clarity into the music with an added finesse and for me in my room setup, a big improvement in the bass with better grip, detail and control, this is what really made it a no brainier for me.

I would not make the step up to 300DR before adding a PS to the 272, I auditioned both the XPSDR or 555ps DR and they both add massively to the standalone 272 with the 250DR.

ATB

Rob T posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Wrong way wround - improve your source first. XPS on N272 is an absolute must - transforms it.  You can also try 555ps on your preamp. But I would hazard a guess XPS DR will bring the balance that you may miss now,

You must also think in terms of a system synergy - why put a power amp that is double the price of a source? Certain components were really designed to work together.

+1

I totally agree with the above, I have XPSDR-N272 250DR PMC 26, I will soon be upgrading to 300DR having done an audition recently. By adding the 300DR instantly there is a greater insight and clarity into the music with an added finesse and for me in my room setup, a big improvement in the bass with better grip, detail and control, this is what really made it a no brainier for me.

I would not make the step up to 300DR before adding a PS to the 272, I auditioned both the XPSDR or 555ps DR and they both add massively to the standalone 272 with the 250DR.

ATB

would you go as far as saying a N272/300DR would make more music than a 555-DR or XPS-DR/N272/250DR?

I ask because my upgrade difference towards a 300DR would be the same cost as a XPS-DR for me

greekspec2 posted:

Rob T posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Wrong way wround - improve your source first. XPS on N272 is an absolute must - transforms it.  You can also try 555ps on your preamp. But I would hazard a guess XPS DR will bring the balance that you may miss now,

You must also think in terms of a system synergy - why put a power amp that is double the price of a source? Certain components were really designed to work together.

+1

I totally agree with the above, I have XPSDR-N272 250DR PMC 26, I will soon be upgrading to 300DR having done an audition recently. By adding the 300DR instantly there is a greater insight and clarity into the music with an added finesse and for me in my room setup, a big improvement in the bass with better grip, detail and control, this is what really made it a no brainier for me.

I would not make the step up to 300DR before adding a PS to the 272, I auditioned both the XPSDR or 555ps DR and they both add massively to the standalone 272 with the 250DR.

ATB

would you go as far as saying a N272/300DR would make more music than a 555-DR or XPS-DR/N272/250DR?

I ask because my upgrade difference towards a 300DR would be the same cost as a XPS-DR for me

As I said I would not go down the standalone N272/300DR route to me it would be utter madness, improve the source first rule applies here big time so I would not bother to listen to that combo.

I agree with that, I heard 272/250 DR without XPS. and as I am quite used to 282/HCDR, I felt that already 250 DR was very capable, and I would add XPSDR to 272 before even thinking about 300 DR

Naim preamps really sound much better with a outboard PSU, in the case of 272 the internal one is switched off completely, the strong magnetic field from the torroid transformer is now gone, and the performance of 272 should take a big leap. I haven't heard it, but I am very pleased with how Hicap DR changes 202 and 282 into much better preamps, lower noise floor, better soundstage, and just more music extracted  from your recordings.

I'm just about to add a 300dr to superuniti (via hicap). Superuniti will be going next year but i will be very happy living with it Like that. Also heard the 272 very briefly through the 300 and the difference between the superuniti and 272 is not great. I don't want to do what you've done and buy a 250 because I know I'll just want a 300 soon after. 

I'd audition the amp and then the ps to hear differences and then decide. I'm my view you need to sort source and amp (in whatever order) and then power supplies as further upgrades if you find they suit you. 

I'm not sure why you need a Hicap. In fact, you definitely don't need it. I'm fairly confident that you could take the two leads from the pre-out and Sub-out. Alternatively you could get them reconfigured as a Y lead.  It's best to check with Naim. 

I certainly wouldn't run the SU with a 300 for too long. The 272 is far more sophisticated, and with an XPSDR or 555PSDR is transformed into a different beast entirely. 

A hicap is fine for where I'm going with it. I'll be needing it shortly in any case so I'm not interested in other ways of making two outputs out of one  

Bare su v's bare 272, not much difference. Never mentioned power supplies. What prompted my post is I felt I had to say is putting a 300 onto a 272 isn't "utter madness" like someone mentioned. 

I'm sorry you seem a little grumpy at my post, but I don't understand how you will use a Hicap with a SuperUniti. You just plug the 300 into the SU. Are you saying that later on you will be getting a 282? If not, what are you going to use the Hicap for?

Not grumpy exactly. After discussion with my dealer that's how we're doing it. I always take advice and trust my dealer. It's just not the nicest thing to have people imply I'm not thinking these things through when I most certainly am especially considering the costs involved. 

Yes a pre is on the cards. The hicap is an ex demo dr so with that in mind and price increases between now and when a pre arrives I think it's a good idea.

sorry op, I think we've veered off topic  

Rob T posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Rob T posted:

+1

I totally agree with the above, I have XPSDR-N272 250DR PMC 26, I will soon be upgrading to 300DR having done an audition recently. By adding the 300DR instantly there is a greater insight and clarity into the music with an added finesse and for me in my room setup, a big improvement in the bass with better grip, detail and control, this is what really made it a no brainier for me.

I would not make the step up to 300DR before adding a PS to the 272, I auditioned both the XPSDR or 555ps DR and they both add massively to the standalone 272 with the 250DR.

ATB

would you go as far as saying a N272/300DR would make more music than a 555-DR or XPS-DR/N272/250DR?

I ask because my upgrade difference towards a 300DR would be the same cost as a XPS-DR for me

As I said I would not go down the standalone N272/300DR route to me it would be utter madness, improve the source first rule applies here big time so I would not bother to listen to that combo.

If you're a bit of a party animal and you like loud, exciting music, I actually think going for the 300DR first might be a move you would enjoy. In any other situation, keeping the 250 and adding an XPS would be a better move. That, at least, was my conclusion when I compared these two options at a dealers last year. 

ChrisSU posted:

Rob T posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Rob T posted:

+1

I totally agree with the above, I have XPSDR-N272 250DR PMC 26, I will soon be upgrading to 300DR having done an audition recently. By adding the 300DR instantly there is a greater insight and clarity into the music with an added finesse and for me in my room setup, a big improvement in the bass with better grip, detail and control, this is what really made it a no brainier for me.

I would not make the step up to 300DR before adding a PS to the 272, I auditioned both the XPSDR or 555ps DR and they both add massively to the standalone 272 with the 250DR.

ATB

would you go as far as saying a N272/300DR would make more music than a 555-DR or XPS-DR/N272/250DR?

I ask because my upgrade difference towards a 300DR would be the same cost as a XPS-DR for me

As I said I would not go down the standalone N272/300DR route to me it would be utter madness, improve the source first rule applies here big time so I would not bother to listen to that combo.

If you're a bit of a party animal and you like loud, exciting music, I actually think going for the 300DR first might be a move you would enjoy. In any other situation, keeping the 250 and adding an XPS would be a better move. That, at least, was my conclusion when I compared these two options at a dealers last year. 

I'm looking for exciting music not just exciting Hi-Fi...to bad there is really no dealer or members that have my speakers and other Naim gear hooked up so I can compare in my area.

Get the 300DR.

To my ears the 272 is similar to the CDX2/NDX - give it a XPS and it is an altogether more mature, insightful, musical performer. 

The 300DR is a more mature warmer performer that the 250DR but the gap is arguably closer with the DR versions than before.

As ever - there are no absolutes - all down to preference.

Regards,

Lindsay

I suspect that many others may experience Naim power supplies like I have - on first listen to adding an XPS to a CDX, it sounded like I had just added a more powerful amplifier.  Among other improvements to the sound, the music was more dynamic.  My guess is the OP has not experienced a Naim power supply addition to source or preamp, and like most audiophiles is fosusing on the poweramp to improve the system.   

If it were me, I would get the XPS first.  But if you feel the need for the 300, then I am sure you will enjoy it.  It will be an investment in future upgrades, as you won't be hearing all it can do until the source is improved.  But, "hey," it will not sound bad!

Charlie

finally figured how to post pictures, hews a few of my current dilemma with and without tweeter grills

No dilemma here in my view. The 250DR has more than enough energy to control and drive Sopra2's in most rooms. The XPS DR will bring along a great deal more resolution, organisation and control. That said, I'm assuming the following:

• You have the Naim kit plugged into a separate block from the TV and any other paraphernalia. If this is not the case, you need to fix this pronto. That TV and other items such as set top boxes will be injecting noise into the mains causing your system to suffer from reduced dynamic range. (Just unplug your devices to hear the difference.) This is caused by their switched mode power supplies which pollute the mains.
• The Naim kit is NOT plugged into a surge-protected multiway block. If it's plugged into a mains conditioner or surge-protected block, this has the effect of reducing the life of the system because it manages the surges made by the system. You should only use this kind of thing if there is a genuine possibility of electrical storm.

Frank.

unfortunately I only have one dual wall outlet, my audio shares one socket on a splitter plug and my TV etc. share the rest off a power strip. The condo I'm in is less than 5 yrs. old which is somewhat a plus but yes this is a temporary  living quarters for my system and not the best

In that case, I would buy something like an Olsen surge protected block and put the TV and anything else other than the Naims on that through one outlet. If the splitter plug is one of those little blocks  you plug directly into the socket, then that has to go in favour of a proper multiway block, preferably star earthed. Doing this will get you in the right place to take advantage of costly upgrades.

Frank.

Frank Abela posted:

In that case, I would buy something like an Olsen surge protected block and put the TV and anything else other than the Naims on that through one outlet. If the splitter plug is one of those little blocks  you plug directly into the socket, then that has to go in favour of a proper multiway block, preferably star earthed. Doing this will get you in the right place to take advantage of costly upgrades.

Frank.

my only option is two power strips since I have only one dual socket outlet, Olsen I doubt I find here in the USA