my dilema.....Focal Sopra N272/250DR/NAC A5

They do work rather well with the 250DR, don't they? It's an even tighter squeeze behind my SL2s...

Monitor Audio GX300 need plenty of space to breathe....

Hi Nigel,

What's exactly your SL2's distance from rear wall ? just curious, mine is 10 cm 

Regards

Roberto

There is 9cm between the wood cabinet and the wall, and a couple of mm extra on the outside, so that the speakers are toed in by a couple of degrees. 

Ok, Thanks

R.

Hungryhalibut posted:

They do work rather well with the 250DR, don't they? It's an even tighter squeeze behind my SL2s...

To be honest I have a few hours of listening time with them and I hate to say I don't think I like the sound change they give,I will give them a week or so to confirm my opinion

greekspec2 posted:

To be honest I have a few hours of listening time with them and I hate to say I don't think I like the sound change they give,I will give them a week or so to confirm my opinion

Which aspect is not to your liking?

If the cables are new, they will take a long time to run in. It's worth pointing out that it would make a lot more sense to get an XPSDR or 555PSDR and a really good stand before thinking about SL cables. The cables have a very high resolution and may be too revealing of the bare 272, creating more of a mullet. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

If the cables are new, they will take a long time to run in. It's worth pointing out that it would make a lot more sense to get an XPSDR or 555PSDR and a really good stand before thinking about SL cables. The cables have a very high resolution and may be too revealing of the bare 272, creating more of a mullet. 

Absolutely true!  The N272 is transformed by a good power supply.  Remember what Naim always says..."source matters".

Bud

I suspect what may have happened with the SL cables that GREEKSPEC2 is referring to as 'I hate to say I don't think I like the sound change they give'

SuperLuminas are very transparent - the best way I can describe them as 'they remove obstacles' rather than add any sound signature of their own. I have recently added an SL DIN interconnect and even from cold it was a revelation (so now my system has SL speaker and DIN cables)
So what may be happening now is that OP is actually starting to hear system imperfections due to it's positioning (e.g. lack of proper support) or speaker positioning. What may have been masked by previous cables is now clearly very evident.

This may actually create a bit of a paradox - unless other system shortcomings are fixed, SL cables may actually make the system sound worse.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I suspect what may have happened with the SL cables that GREEKSPEC2 is referring to as 'I hate to say I don't think I like the sound change they give'

SuperLuminas are very transparent - the best way I can describe them as 'they remove obstacles' rather than add any sound signature of their own. I have recently added an SL DIN interconnect and even from cold it was a revelation (so now my system has SL speaker and DIN cables)
So what may be happening now is that OP is actually starting to hear system imperfections due to it's positioning (e.g. lack of proper support) or speaker positioning. What may have been masked by previous cables is now clearly very evident.

This may actually create a bit of a paradox - unless other system shortcomings are fixed, SL cables may actually make the system sound worse.

 

You are probally right,it seems as it raise the db in the upper end ' brighter but more delicate almost digital sounding' before it sounded more like synergy now like there fighting agaist each other

Adam Zielinski posted:

Monitor Audio GX300 need plenty of space to breathe....

Oohh...Adam, you really need to replace those crappy MA link leads. Naim don't make link leads for the SL so I got the next best thing (actually probably similarities to SL truth be known) made by Vertere. I think the model is Pulse X Mini IIRC and they cost about £125 for a complete set or you can pay more for fancier models from Vertere. The following shows them installed on my GX 300s. I was advised to have the SL leads plugged into the HF sockets but I see you have yours in the LF sockets - any particular reason for this?

Apologies to the OP for the diversion from the thread Topic.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I suspect what may have happened with the SL cables that GREEKSPEC2 is referring to as 'I hate to say I don't think I like the sound change they give'

SuperLuminas are very transparent - the best way I can describe them as 'they remove obstacles' rather than add any sound signature of their own. I have recently added an SL DIN interconnect and even from cold it was a revelation (so now my system has SL speaker and DIN cables)
So what may be happening now is that OP is actually starting to hear system imperfections due to it's positioning (e.g. lack of proper support) or speaker positioning. What may have been masked by previous cables is now clearly very evident.

This may actually create a bit of a paradox - unless other system shortcomings are fixed, SL cables may actually make the system sound worse.

 

Here we go again...It's clear SL cabling doesn't work well with some systems. It's wrong to assume there are "shortcomings" in someone's setup because they don't sound good. Particularly applicable if you haven't an all-Naim system. Accept and move on.

Tony - if you actually read the ENTIRE post you would realise we have a complete NAIM system with Focal Sopara 2.

Hovever - it sits on what appears to be a regular MDF TV rack and the room looks a bit bare.

If you do not see those as shortcomings, you are of course entitled to your opinion. But please refrain from labelling my opinions as 'wrong' just becasue you don't agree with them.

Adam

nigelb posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Monitor Audio GX300 need plenty of space to breathe....

 

Oohh...Adam, you really need to replace those crappy MA link leads. Naim don't make link leads for the SL so I got the next best thing (actually probably similarities to SL truth be known) made by Vertere. I think the model is Pulse X Mini IIRC and they cost about £125 for a complete set or you can pay more for fancier models from Vertere. The following shows them installed on my GX 300s. I was advised to have the SL leads plugged into the HF sockets but I see you have yours in the LF sockets - any particular reason for this?

Apologies to the OP for the diversion from the thread Topic.

Nigel - thanks for the tip! Will get those links sorted. As to why bottom rather than top - tried both and prefered the bottom connection.

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Tony - if you actually read the ENTIRE post you would realise we have a complete NAIM system with Focal Sopara 2.

Hovever - it sits on what appears to be a regular MDF TV rack and the room looks a bit bare.

If you do not see those as shortcomings, you are of course entitled to your opinion. But please refrain from labelling my opinions as 'wrong' just becasue you don't agree with them.

Adam

If you read my post more carefully you'll undersand I was not referring to your system, since you like the SL; it was your comment regarding GReekspec2's post. I might dispute your assertion that you've got an all-Naim system but we'll let that pass. 

tonym posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Tony - if you actually read the ENTIRE post you would realise we have a complete NAIM system with Focal Sopara 2.

Hovever - it sits on what appears to be a regular MDF TV rack and the room looks a bit bare.

If you do not see those as shortcomings, you are of course entitled to your opinion. But please refrain from labelling my opinions as 'wrong' just becasue you don't agree with them.

Adam

If you read my post more carefully you'll undersand I was not referring to your system, since you like the SL; it was your comment regarding GReekspec2's post. I might dispute your assertion that you've got an all-Naim system but we'll let that pass. 

I was referring to OP's system Tony.
And by the way - yes I do have an all Naim system (one of them is Naim only).

For the first time in sixteen years I have a completely non-Naim system.

There are many ways to skin cats. And no - it is not all Denon either!

ATB from George

Well done George - how is the mono coming along? 

I'm curious: do you 'feed' it only with mono recordings? How does it handle stereo sources?

Adam

Dear Adam,

If the stereo recording is “mono compatible” then there is absolutely no problem letting the MAC Mini sum to mono in the digital stage [before USB connection to an asynchronous DAC] - and few really significant recordings are not mono compatible, even today. There was a dodgy patch in the 1970s! Fortunately not an era of golden repute for great recordings of classical music.

This then goes from the DAC as dual mono to the Little Dot, which sends its output to the Quad amp and my Tivoli radio. Obviously which ever is turned on makes the amplification. 

On headphones the output is [dual] mono, which prevents that weird effect of the orchestra or group being either side of the listener. The in-head effect is much easier to ignore, and of course entirely emulates what the composer faced in the first place!

For me I have been approaching mono since 1975 and finally completely bitten the bullet, and it is a piece of caviar, not dead lead!

I do not expect any followers, but I have always questioned received wisdom. I suspect that people who try my system out are in for a surprise that may make them smile!

Best wishes from George

PS: Mono compatible stereo is phase coherent in the two channels, and achieves left and right sense by panning only, as I expect you knew, but not every reader here might ...

George - starting to understand.
Thank you for the explanation. I actually do understand why you want a mono playback.

If I think about it a sound of an instrument is always in mono - my bass is actually in mono. My whole band, when playing is still in mono. The fact that I'm in a studio with the band does not make it a stereo sound - it makes me part of the mono mix, albeit with a lot of reflections from studio walls.

Very intrigued now

Adam

Dear Adam,

Mono actually does the sense of space and acoustic far better than stereo, for some reason that I do not understand.

For example the difference in studio acoustic quality between Abbey Road Number One and the Kingsway Hall is defined nicely in mono but is almost impossible to find in stereo, where everything is artificially dissected in the layers and artifical separation of instruments right next each other. This would not matter except that the hall acoustic causes intruments to respond differently, and musicians take great care over control of timbre, which varies in different halls. The timbre is a basic tool of expression in playing music. 

Best wishes from George

I understand the pleasure in both mono & stereo.   Much as mono brings to the music as an academic experience,  to me stereo brings the 3rd dimension, the individual instruments/voices in their own space, the soundstage of the ensemble & how it reacts with the hall ambiance .......... that to me makes a complete musical experience.

I don't understand your band analogy Adam,  I expect to hear each of the guys around me in their different positions,  yes each is sort of mono,  but a drum set or full piano is no way mono from where I sit.     

Dear Mike,

Like Adam I have a long experience of “ensemble” playing. It colours my view of listening, and so I do not expect a following. 

Players play closely together to get close ensemble, not apart and separated. Of course a large orchestra may have forty feet between the double bass section and the back of the first violins. This is a problem, not something to emphasis, at least as seen from the performing perspective, as the real problem then becomes co-ordination of a true ensemble and interaction between players. 

I am not fond of very large orchestra music. Brahms wrote for the largest orchestra I think can be called a coherent ensemble. Interesting, perhaps, that Sibelius and Walton both continued to write for a Brahms sized orchestra in the Twentieth Century! 

The problem with very large ensembles is that playing becomes a question of playing without hearing the most distant playing, and becomes a technical exercise in following the conductor rather than true ensemble playing.

Just as this is no pleasure for me to listen to, it was no pleasure at all to partake in.

We all have our ghost to lay to rest!

Best wishes from George

Most of my playing these days is small jazz guitar,  prior to that was brass ensemble, big-band, military brass & some full orchestra.  

Players play together,   of course they do,   but I need & expect to hear others all around & from a separate space, that to me is the 3rd dimension,  its the total awareness of those all around & each individually controlling the play to achieve perfection within whole ambient environment.    That is what I still listen for in home replay.