Power Amp advice & connections

The S20 is a seriously good speaker that needs a lot more than the MSDM. And as for the UQ2/100....

Linn streamers and Naim amps are never going to be a match made in heaven, but if you must, then a 250DR is the way to go. You could then try a 272 in place of the Linn and see what you think. 

Thanks for the reply.  I agree that the S20 is excellent but don't necessarily agree that the MDSM is a poor match for it - in what way??  It sounds excellent as it is with my only possible gripe being that it does miss some of the 'grunt' that Naim would give it.  Not night and day, just a little more. That's the reason I'm exploring dedicated amplification from Naim and maybe others like Exposure. 

I should have mentioned that I bought the MDSM and Kudos at the same time. The UQ was not paired with them but, again, that system was surprisingly gutsy for its stated output. 

The issue I had with the UQ was a baffling one with my network and/or NAS that hasn't been replicated with the Linn and a couple of other systems I have tried.  I'm therefore a bit reluctant to include a Naim streamer in my setup as there's something amiss. I'd be happy to take an amp on board though.

I agree with the peckish fish. The Kudos speakers are far beyond the rest of the kit, certainly including the UQ/100, to the extent they may be too revealing. 

Why did you switch to Linn if you prefer the Naim amp? You seem unable to choose between these two brands. In my experience, some people prefer Linn and some people prefer Naim, with the difference being something intangible about how you listen to music. Excepting the LP12, I'm not sure I'd recommend a combination of the two, although of course it may work a treat for all I know - you'll have to trust your own ears. Either way, pick a really good, well balanced system that suits your wallet and makes you want to listen to music for hours and hours, and stick with that for a couple of years at least.

This hardly answers the OP's questions, and he seems to be happy with his new Linn streamer.  In the absence of anyone who can answer the questions from personal experience perhaps it's worth finding a friendly dealer who will let you try a Naim amp with your Linn streamer so that you can hear for yourself.  A good dealer will also be able to answer your questions.  HH's recommendation of the 250dr may be a good place to start as its a well thought of amp. 

I'd hesitated before posting as suspected this may turn into a stealth Linn vs Naim thread or otherwise a discussion about some mythical, price driven, product hierarchy.  

The way I listen to music is dead simple.  If I am looking for a system I hear something and if I like it I buy it then, in the absence of problems, I keep it a long time.

I have tried a million combinations and dismissed most of them as 'not right for me'.  So, to be totally transparent and not inappropriately challenging, I really am not bothered what people think of the system matching - that's for idealists and people taken in by the consumerist approach that says 'if you have this then you have to have that'.  The only people who benefit are dealers and Bank Managers. My ears decide, not brochures.

So - thanks for the input so far as I suspect it's done in good faith but can anyone give me any insight into the original questions?  Pretty please? 

Regarding the necessary cables: for NAP 200 and lower you could take a Chord cable in the 2 RCA to 4 pin NAIM DIN configuration. These are available in many price categories, from Crimson to Sarum. Or ask your dealer, mine soldered one for me from Mogami cables.

For the NAP 250 you would need a 2 RCA to Cannon type of cable, I couldn't spot these on the Chord web site. Their XLR cables wouldn't help you if I understand correctly, because these carry one stereo channel per lead, the Cannon would need to carry both. Perhaps you can ask them if they would build one for you.

Paulq posted:

Thanks for the reply.  I agree that the S20 is excellent but don't necessarily agree that the MDSM is a poor match for it - in what way??  It sounds excellent as it is with my only possible gripe being that it does miss some of the 'grunt' that Naim would give it.  Not night and day, just a little more. That's the reason I'm exploring dedicated amplification from Naim and maybe others like Exposure. 

I should have mentioned that I bought the MDSM and Kudos at the same time. The UQ was not paired with them but, again, that system was surprisingly gutsy for its stated output. 

The issue I had with the UQ was a baffling one with my network and/or NAS that hasn't been replicated with the Linn and a couple of other systems I have tried.  I'm therefore a bit reluctant to include a Naim streamer in my setup as there's something amiss. I'd be happy to take an amp on board though.

Can you elaborate more on your problem with the network when using. UQ? 

Matching a Naim power amp to a non-Naim pre is tricky as Naim put the upper frequency limit (a safety limitation for the system stability) into the preamp (it's done for good sound engineering reasons before anyone asks).  To match a non-Naim pre to a Naim power amp, you also have to ensure the pre has this limit built in.

I can't advise in this case as I don't know the properties of the Linn systems.

On the point of control of the speakers, just looking at the continuous 8Ω / 4Ω power output won't actually tell you anything useful, as the transient performance is far more important in practice.

Yeah I had quite a few issues with the Naim/UPnP interface where the UQ would suddenly stop 'seeing' the NAS.  Naim were really helpful, even if I think they didn't fully understand what the issue really was.  I suspect, from reading other similar issues that there appears to be some kind of disconnect between Synology's Media Server running on DSM 6, and the Naim stuff.  I did however have the same issue when MinimServer was installed so not quite sure that's the whole story.

I use Synology's Media Server running on DSM 6 with a ND5 XS, and can confirm they are fully compatible.

I used to have problems with connectivity, but I tracked this down to my ISP supplied WiFi router, despite the fact that my streamer and NAS are both on hard wired Ethernet.

Well, we'll probably disagree there and a quick search of this forum among others would tell you that maybe they aren't as compatible as they should be.....everything on my network is hard wired and nothing else dropped out other than the UQ.  A 72 hour test with 2 other streamers on exactly the same setup reported no dropouts.  UQ plugged back in and hey Presto..

I'm not criticising the product btw - I thought it was great - it's just 'something' it's fussy about.

I never use an ISP supplied router.

I wasn't in any way dissing the Linn - I have no views on it either way - merely pointing out that higher end system is needed to match the high end speakers. As others have said, Naim amps need a Naim preamp, it's not marketing, it's the way they are made. 

I suspect the issue of the Qute not seeing the server is a networking issue. My Naim boxes see the Synology every time, on a simple wired network running via a switch. 

As you the questions, chord or flashback can do the necessary leads, and Naim will supply it too, I'm sure. 

You can use standard banana plugs with Naim amps quite happily: their own Super Lumina cables have bananas. 

My reason for mentioning the 250DR is that it's of the standard to match the speakers, and I've heard it working well with the standard Kudos 20. I don't believe any Naim amp will be more or less compatible with the Linn, as they are all designed in the same way. Just pick the one with the power to drive your speakers. 

If it were me, I'd try the KDSM/250 back to back with the 272/250 and see which floats your boat. Alternatively, you could get a bigger Linn power amp to add the DSM. That's the third option to try. 

Paul,

I've been a contributor to those discussions!

It's more likely that the UQ is objecting to something else on your network (in my case it was IGMP snooping by the router - and this is a potential problem with any "intelligent" WiFi access point or "intelligent" router / terminal adapter, not just those supplied by ISPs).

Just because and the UQ has a problem in your network (and other devices don't), doesn't automatically mean that the UQ's at fault (or the Synology for that matter), it just means that there's some device somewhere on the network that's interfering with the UQ's network traffic or it's use of network protocols.  Typically this won't be a problem of hardware compatibility, rather it's more likely to be a configuration issue.

Persevere with the UQ, and look at the configuration of the devices you have on your network,  The problem can almost certainly be solved.

Huge posted:

I use Synology's Media Server running on DSM 6 with a ND5 XS, and can confirm they are fully compatible.

I used to have problems with connectivity, but I tracked this down to my ISP supplied WiFi router, despite the fact that my streamer and NAS are both on hard wired Ethernet.

Ditto - Synology DSM-6 with NDX & they are very fully compatible. 

This is a connectivity issue,   apart from connectivity problems caused by wireless or EoP connections,  it might well be an issue with the router & I normally suspect that above all else.  However the start of DSM-6 did seem to cause an issue with network discovery with a few people, a systematic power cycle fixed it so I suspect DSM-6 did something with IP address allocation - (IP addresses are managed by the router).  

Another +1 for Synology  with Media Server and DSM6, I changed to Synology from a cheaper NAS and never looked back, works like a charm hard wired with simple network switch.....and I've used it with both my previous UQ2 and my current 172. As Huge and HH say....that should be something that can be rectified easily..

Regarding 3: I use 2 NAP 200s driving SL2s in an active configuration with a Linn DSM as front end. While this may not be a supported configuration by Naim (I'm only guessing, there is no official advice against non Naim pre amps AFAIK), my experiences have been excellent so far. My impression is that I'm getting best of both worlds.

So if you want to try a Linn pre with a Naim amp, why not? You would have to invest in an appropriate cable though, which could be difficult to sell if you don't like the combination with the Naim amp.

Huge posted:

Matching a Naim power amp to a non-Naim pre is tricky as Naim put the upper frequency limit (a safety limitation for the system stability) into the preamp (it's done for good sound engineering reasons before anyone asks).  To match a non-Naim pre to a Naim power amp, you also have to ensure the pre has this limit built in.

I can't advise in this case as I don't know the properties of the Linn systems.

On the point of control of the speakers, just looking at the continuous 8Ω / 4Ω power output won't actually tell you anything useful, as the transient performance is far more important in practice.

It is done for sound reasons as I understand that RF noise in the MHZ region can start modulating with the music signal, which is heard as extra treble energy, not good, and the amp can become unstable.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I wasn't in any way dissing the Linn - I have no views on it either way - merely pointing out that higher end system is needed to match the high end speakers. As others have said, Naim amps need a Naim preamp, it's not marketing, it's the way they are made. 

I suspect the issue of the Qute not seeing the server is a networking issue. My Naim boxes see the Synology every time, on a simple wired network running via a switch. 

As you the questions, chord or flashback can do the necessary leads, and Naim will supply it too, I'm sure. 

You can use standard banana plugs with Naim amps quite happily: their own Super Lumina cables have bananas. 

My reason for mentioning the 250DR is that it's of the standard to match the speakers, and I've heard it working well with the standard Kudos 20. I don't believe any Naim amp will be more or less compatible with the Linn, as they are all designed in the same way. Just pick the one with the power to drive your speakers. 

If it were me, I'd try the KDSM/250 back to back with the 272/250 and see which floats your boat. Alternatively, you could get a bigger Linn power amp to add the DSM. That's the third option to try. 

Thanks and I didn't take it that way; more that there seems to be an automated response in that things that 'shouldn't' go together 'won't' go together - that approach seems folly to me and some of the best systems I have heard have been owned by those willing to break with that convention.  Added to which I'm a cynical so and so when it comes to dealer spin....

As it stands I am considering either an interim step with the Audiolab 8200p or going the whole hog with a Nord Hypex.

Thanks for the help - much appreciated.