What are Naim best at?

Tobyjug.. I think you are right - if I cast my memory right back to when I was considering Naim for the first time - I did find the various wiring connections with strange sounding cable connector names and the whole power supply setup thing between pre and powers quite daunting ... even with my dealer's support... now I don't give it a moments thought....

DUPREE posted:

 My opinion is they are clearly the best at streamers, no one makes better streamers in my opinion, followed by power amps (although there are a lot of great power-amps out there). Combo wise I think what represents their best offering overall (In terms of value/performance) is the NAC-N 272 and NAP-250DR.  200 and 300 are both really solid amps too..

If you're going to say power amps, I think you have to include preamps too. A high end Naim system is nothing without a good preamp, and whilst the Scottish lot have ditched them along with CD players, Naim have had the courage to stick with them, not to mention adding a new one that costs £57,000. 

For me Naims entry level products, Uniti Qute on its own is probably all one needs in average size rooms.

HiFiman posted:

For me Naims entry level products, Uniti Qute on its own is probably all one needs in average size rooms.

 

What what one needs is a very different of what one wants  

Naim is an amp company (nowadays with a lifestyle twist)…

ChrisSU posted:

If you're going to say power amps, I think you have to include preamps too. A high end Naim system is nothing without a good preamp, and whilst the Scottish lot have ditched them along with CD players, Naim have had the courage to stick with them, not to mention adding a new one that costs £57,000. 

Contrary to popular belief, Naim, was well regarded for their power amp range. and power supplies.

In fact, up to the late 80s they seemed more focused on them, then with the introduction of Nac 52, it changed such  criteria.

 While in the early 80s we often saw combination like 42 or 32/HC into 135s  and  135s six pack into active Bricks was not a so  uncommon sight, today we have top noch Nacs like 252 and 552 (Nac S1 is a different world) into relatively humble 200 and 250.

My dealer recently told me that if ever you want mix match a Naim preamp with another make, this is realtively acceptable, not so the contrary.

Regards

Roberto

What are Naim best at?

What got me into them in 1985 : Amplifiers. 

Although Naim do make excellent digital sources, and use to make interesting speakers, for me the core and best product of Naim will always be their amplifiers.

Sloop John B posted:

amplification?

speakers?

CD players?

DACs?

Streamers?

cables?

marketing?

phono stages?

 

 

 

To me, what sets Naim apart from the rest of the audio companies is the design and engineering of the equipment, specifically the higher-range amplifiers and CD players which require additional power supplies (as an option or non-option) to work or perform at a more optimal or higher level. There may be other companies which practice this same philosophy in their equipment, and Naim may have done it better.

Imagine someone new in the audio world, going into integrated amplifiers and upgrading to separate pre-power boxes only to discover Naim's fresh power supply upgrade options ie. more boxes. The curiosity will ultimately encourage the passionate audio enthusiast or music lover to discover Naim.

Personally, I would rank in the following order on what Naim is best at :-

1. Engineering or design approach, specifically amplifiers and CD players

2. Marketing

3. Amplifiers

I would put amplifiers ahead of the rest. A disclaimer is I am biased as I own Naim amps. Only the amplifier.

They were the best at making the Aro which is still my favourite tone arm

Pre Amps

Depends ,I'd say sources and pre amps.

Who's not much into this brand easily agrees sources have the edge over competition.

Late (ish) Saturday evening - listening to the Nightfly on vinyl through the Senn 650s so the only Naim components active are the Headline and NAPSC - sounds absolutely outstanding!

I think it's offering a broad spectrum of products with a wide variety of upgrade possibilities - which gives everybody the possibility to grow. I haven't seen this with any other supplier. 

From a pure product perspective it's the amps.

As well as producing excellent products their Customer Service is second to none. A reassuring thought when making any purchase.

Best amps, sources and some of their speakers, worst is the expensive upgrade path which only bring you agitation and a sound that's less Naimies. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Late (ish) Saturday evening - listening to the Nightfly on vinyl through the Senn 650s so the only Naim components active are the Headline and NAPSC - sounds absolutely outstanding!

You're not suggesting that the Headline and NAPSC (black I hope) are what Naim is best at are you?

... having us spending amazingly long hours of our short lives scrutinizing and incidentally posting on this forum.  

Chag -

What are Naim best at?

Furrowing the upgrade path. Creating outstanding replay satisfaction with existing gear while simultaneously leaving you assured that there's something better a mere upgrade away.

Chris Dolan posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Late (ish) Saturday evening - listening to the Nightfly on vinyl through the Senn 650s so the only Naim components active are the Headline and NAPSC - sounds absolutely outstanding!

You're not suggesting that the Headline and NAPSC (black I hope) are what Naim is best at are you?

No I'm stating that Naim products can produce great music at different price levels and in many different ways.  

+1 

Simply implementing a product, range, quality, service, upgrade, and marketing strategy that drives customer loyalty. I started that sentence with the word 'simply', of course it is not simple and requires smart people with a vision and business acumen.

How is customer loyalty driven in this business then? Well it helps if you can start the ball rolling with some degree of awareness and reputation for making great sounding hi if. Initial interest in the brand has rather cleverly been expanded by the extending downwards the newest entry product - Muso and Qb. This new entry point appeals to the 'Naim brand unaware' and I am sure lowers the age of Naim new owners. As these new entrants recognise the quality of the music making capabilities of their new box they will become curious about the rest of the product range and many will start to trade up as their disposable income increases. Very, very smart. Other new entrants will have been attracted by the reputation of the brand and will be a little more aware of the product portfolio and will enter a little higher up the product hierarchy.

So it starts with great entry products aided by, but not necessarily dependent on, a great reputation. You have this potentially very valuable new customer, so how do you get them to stay loyal to the brand and trade up. Assuming they are happy with their entry product, some will be tempted to listen to other Naim gear. So you need a great dealer network who are able to demonstrate such kit, will even lend some to you for home demo. You also need a wide range of products that work at their best when put together in the same system, good second hand values so you minimise losses when trading up and indeed the possibility to by exdem or secondhand to lessen further the financial hit when trading up. Oh, you need reliable kit and, on the rare occasion it goes wrong, it is sorted quickly with the minimum of fuss. Of course it goes without saying that all this gear must sound brilliant.

Well which brand does all of this then? Durr....let me think...!

DUPREE posted:

I agree, I wish they would rationalize the stupid power supply thing. It's confusing and I think a dated idea.

I think we've had this debate before and I think you're wrong - but of course entitled to your opinion.

Good PS design is fundamental to Naim products - as it should be to any hi-fi equipment - and Naim at various points offer various upgrade options.

What could be wrong with that?

Regards,

Lindsay

I have the same opinion: power supplies are crucial. I'm lucky enough to be in the process of burning-in of my first ever (owned not tested) PS. And I cannot believe what I'm hearing before that I only had simple Naim boxes so PS upgrade was not possible. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

DUPREE posted:

I agree, I wish they would rationalize the stupid power supply thing. It's confusing and I think a dated idea.

I think we've had this debate before and I think you're wrong - but of course entitled to your opinion.

Good PS design is fundamental to Naim products - as it should be to any hi-fi equipment - and Naim at various points offer various upgrade options.

What could be wrong with that?

Regards,

Lindsay

Agreed, better to have a good device that the user can upgrade through power supplies, as and when required, than to have Naim make the final choice and be stuck with a device that is either impossible to upgrade or too highly priced to purchase in the first place.  I like my SN2 as supplied but I love it with the Hicap dr connected to it and I'm grateful to have had the choice to upgrade it.