Which Naim streamer?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Clearly you want remote control, so I'd go for 2. 1 has too much redundancy. 4 would be ok but the aimed-for SN2 is inappropriate with an ND5. 

Hi HH,

Why is running a ND5 and SN2 inappropriate? I have that very set up and I am delighted with it!

PMB

Simply because the amp is of a higher quality than the source. But if you like it, that's all that matters. 

I would buy the best streamer player (or Nx72 player/pre-amp) you can afford.  As you upgrade your amp you won't need to upgrade the streamer player too that way.  In my somewhat limited experience, a 'reverse mullet' does not exist with Naim digital sources; buy the best you can afford.  If you want to end up at NDX/SN2, do not go out and buy and ND5XS just because you think it'll match better with the Nait 2.  Get the NDX now. 

There are a lot of advantages to a smaller system; the N172 or N272 / power amp combo has a LOT to offer.

My 2 shillings.

Re source SQ level argument, I believe you should get the speakers right first, that give the sound you like in your room, then an amp that will drive/control them at least adequestely. Source can be any level - the speakers let out what the source gives, improve the source and the sound improve.  Heresy to the source first brigade, I know., but whatever you have is limited by the bottleneck of least well performing component - though there is never any harm in having source better than the remainder.

But speakers havent been raised by the OP, so presumably they are fine in this case, so turning to the Specific questions, I  would go for a different source from any of the four queried, because better SQ can be had for less, and given that you already have a Mac Mini, that means better SQ than NDX according to quite a few on this forum, for the cost only of Audirvana, a Hugo (which could be secondhand), and a USB/SPDIF isolator/convertor (mine cost a bit over £100), which could be less even than the secondhand Nd5XS.

They are both good (N272 and 282/NDX), but separates give more power supply upgrades. I'd hazard a statement, that N272 + XPS will be outperformed by 282/SuperCap with NDX and XPS.

With regard to secondhand 172, ND5 and HDX units, were there any significant upgrades? If so, what year and what are benefits? 

There is a page on the Naim website listing all major updates and changes. Most of the updates are software based.

Adam, that's perfect. Many thanks!

Update: Decision made - the UnitiQute2 has landed!

I just thought I’d share my recent experience of a couple of Streamer / Amp demonstrations, including one high end (circa 20K) system, courtesy of a Naim dealer open day. Please excuse the long post - my enthusiasm ran away with me!

UnitQute2: Great! From the opening track I knew this was a good value little box - just based on sound alone, then factor in the streaming / radio / connectivity over my NAIT2 and it becomes a very persuasive option indeed. A very good start.

UnitiQute2 / NAP100: A definite improvement over the bare Qute2, but I felt only a subtle one, certainly not a startling difference. I’d say more a sense of refinement if that makes sense. A worthwhile outlay for the (relatively) modest gain.

UnitiQute2 / NAP250.2 (NAP200 not in stock): This combination, although i’m sure will be criticised by some as being a bit of a mullet, if that’s the correct term, but to my ears I thought it worked rather well. A surprise. I now hear why the dealer thought it worth trying. Everything seemed full bodied with a greater depth of soundstage and overall increased musical engagement. Thoroughly enjoyable. Could very easily live with this combination.

ND5 XS / Supernait 2: Caveat - this was the set up I expected to buy in stages (both ex demo). A very good system - a discernible improvement certainly, but I didn’t think it was a 'night and day' difference when compared to the Qute / Power Amp combination - 250 or the 100 for that matter. I was both equally impressed and a little bit disappointed somehow. Although, If I’d heard the combination in isolation I would have bought both happily.

SuperUniti: As per the ND5 / SN2 combination. Good and better than the Qute / Power Amp, but I wasn’t blown away as I expected to be, therefore I wasn’t moved enough to consider it a viable option. 

NAC-N 272 / XPS / NAP250.2 DR / Focal Sopra 2: Ah - now this was very very interesting! Significantly, a huge step up in every way over the other combinations. Appropriate given the overall price. Much more assured presentation, clean and dynamic - without harshness, a room filling soundstage, increased track detail retrieval, commanding when needed, subtle when appropriate, huge fun and overall a sheer delight to listen to this system, irrespective of the music genre played. A combination of standard rip CD FLAC files (converted to WAV) and higher res albums were used. Now this was the night and day difference, but, alas way out of current budget - sad face!

Decision time...

After a lengthy discussion with the dealer we concluded a UnitiQute2 would be the ideal first stepping stone into the world of streaming, especially being a little apprehensive about the set up process. Plus, I just thought the Qute sounded superb and I could easily live with it on its own. 

In time, I will probably add a power amp as I thought this enhancement was of benefit - possibly a second hand NAP200 as I don’t need the overall oomph of the 250 to drive an easy load bookshelf speakers. But, I do still have the memory of the awesome synergy of the 272/XPS/250/Sopra system, so potential long term sights could be set on the 272 plus NAP! Or I could possibly scratch my Supernait itch and use the Qute as temporary source before a HDX? That’s for the future to decide. For now, I can now see why the dealer was such a big fan of the Qute2 + power amp. I now share the enthusiasm!

Incidentally, the one unit I did not get to hear was the NAC-N 172 as the dealer(s) I attended didn’t stock this streamer, preferring a logical progression of Qute2 to 272 via power amp addition - or the ’separate’ source approach. A little disappointing, but there we go. 

The dealers guidance proved invaluable in helping with the selection process, making sense of the many varied options its possible to now take with the (superb) wide range that Naim offer. This made the buying experience a pleasure.

So now i’m slowly getting to grips with UnitiQute2 and wondering why I didn’t do this sooner, and sincere congratulations if you got to the end of this post!

Yetizone,

Well done with your choice!
A very good write up I must say, which summarises the streaming progression very well.

UQ2 is a good 'little' box that actually sounds larger than it in fact is. Enjoy it and most importantly - enjoy the music!

Adam

Thanks Adam - I certainly hope to enjoy the music, especially the convenience of having access to so many albums under the control of an iphone. I’m definitely enjoying getting up to date with the tech - impressive so far. A few minor user errors with dBpoweramp rips but otherwise its going well, although the office where the Qute is located is a bit of a Wi-Fi dead zone so I need to address that somehow. The high res iRadio performance is a definite unexpected stand out feature.

If its one thing I took from the demonstrations though, its that all of the Naim streaming boxes sounded rather good and there were a few paths I could have easily and happily taken without concern. 

With contrast to that experience, some of the modern speakers were a little disappointing, even compared to my old-tastic Monitor Audio R252’s from the 1980’s, with exception due to the Russell K 50 & 100’s and Focal Aria 906, which I thought had real synergy with the Qute. The big Focal Sopra speakers were a whole other story though - wow!

That certainly sounds like a very comprehensive demonstration. What's nice is that you are happy with the Qute now, but you also know what your money will buy you should you choose to make improvements in the future. I'm all for simple systems; much better than boxes all over the place. I'm sure you'll have many happy hours listening to it. 

+1 for your choice of the UQ2 - I am running one in my shed/office as my 2nd system with a pair of Neat Iotas and it is just a great sound from something so compact. And you have plenty of options for the future too. Pity you have not had chance to hear the 172 as it is an excellent step up - I have mine with the 200DR driving the Focal Aria 906 and can vouch for its capability. One day I will take the plunge to the 272 but I think I still have plenty of enjoyment to get from this system. Enjoy the journey!

Peter

Monitor Audio I have a soft spot for them....

Nice write up and, as you took the time and effort to hear a few progressive options, you know you have made the right decision for you at this point in time. You also know what delights are ahead of you if you decide to upgrade in the future. However for now you have picked what must be the best VFM and versatile black box in Naim's current range IMHO.

Enjoy the music.

HH, yes the demonstrations were a little overwhelming to begin with as there were so many options to consider, but after the music started playing the equipment nuances presented themselves, then the evaluation started to get easier. After many years of being out in the wilderness with older kit, it was a pleasure to catch up as it were.

QUICKBEN, PETER & NIGELB, the little Qute (+NAP) is held in very high regard by the dealer I bought from, commenting that one of his customers who originally had a 282/300 (non DR I think it was) combination had to wait quite a while for his 272 delivery and so was using his 2nd system Qute as a pre / source, and although far from ideal, it didn’t disgrace itself either, the owner gaining a newly found respect for the little Naim Half-Ling!  Dealer then expanded that he thought it the best value per sound unit in the black box range, as per your observation Nigel.

Adam, Likewise, I too have a soft spot for MA as they were my first ‘real’ speakers. The modern MA R252 equivalents are just not viable for me being rear ported, so I have no idea how they compete with my old timers.