252 harshness and burn-in

Is your NDX connected via analog inputs into the 252?

it should be to ground the inputs, and also switch should be set on chassis.

try that...

I have had situations where a cable not making a good connection has caused this type of fault for me. I would suggest disconnecting all cables and carefully connecting each one. Worth a try. 

Thanks both. The turntable is earthed to the earth point on the back of the 252; NDX analogue output to Aux 2 on 252 and set to chassis ground; and I went through the entire cable/mains lead thing again yesterday. I'm wondering whether I maybe hit  a sweet spot in the mains supply as the moment of joy came at about midnight; but would be a big coincidence to happen at same moment as re-fitting the burndy.. Nothing else is on in the house - except fridge/freezer, which I tried turning off, to no avail. It's REALLY frustrating.  

ok try to remove the turntable inputs and try the NDX/Hugo alone?

Thx Analog. I'll try that shortly. 

I would involve your dealer if possible as there is clearly something amiss I actually had a demo of a new Nain system last week started off with a NDX,282,Supercap dr,250 dr using PMC 23 speakers the speakers were then changed to Spendor D7s.

The addition of a XPS dr on the NDX took the system to another level after listening to this combination for some time the dealer then changed the 282 for a 252 all I can say is WOW the level of detail was incredible everthing improved, bass was better controlled vocals were stunning the last piece of icing on the cake was to use a hi line this improved things again.No trace of hardess was evident in the final set up

 I now have a extremely depleted piggy bank but an order has been placed for a 252,Supercap dr,250 dr and an XPS dr just have to decide on what finish to order the speakers in??.

Burn-in wouldn't explain such a huge swing in SQ IMO and as you say it would be a real coincidence happening exactly after you reattached the Burndy. It might be that you have Burndy cable with an intermittent fault. This can happen if there is a poor or failing internal weakness/connection within the cable. If you have time I would get a replacement Burndy (and other leads you suspect) from your dealer to see if this is the problem. The 252 should sound like it did for those precious 25 mins all the time. I moved from 282 to 252 and know how much an improvement there is (should be).

Good luck.

i agree with Nigel -- if you can, borrow a 252 Burndy and see if this is stable.  i assume you have read the Naim FAQ on correct way to make Burndy connections? A poor one will kill the music.Given the tests you have done so far -- i would pay particular attention to this interface. I also assume the burndy is running close to the gigital power snaic? hope you will get ot all sorted and ...

enjoy...

ken

O my I will never understand how to connect this burndy thing correctly. Can someone make a short video and post it to YT? Thank you!

Thanks chaps. PCD - I'm very pleased for you. I spent 25 glorious minutes hearing what you've got! Nigel and Ken - thank you; just emailed dealer and he's sending another Burndy and snaic today. I also found a thread by Simon, associating what I seem to be hearing with his burndy so I'm increasingly hopeful this is the issue. Yes, I'm running the snaic half an inch from burndy from one end to the other. ) I think I'm attaching correctly - offer up by holding end of cable rather than connector and turn collar to pull plug into socket?

My dealer recommends actually twisting the Snaic and the Burndy from the 252 around each other in a spiral. That is how I have mine.

nigelb posted:

My dealer recommends actually twisting the Snaic and the Burndy from the 252 around each other in a spiral. That is how I have mine.

...and i was discouraged from doing that -- apparently running close is all that is required -- but of course there are always different views. however this is done, the differences you are hearing cannot be explained by whether the burndy/snaic are running 'close' or twisted on each other...

its good that OP has access to a different Burndy from dealer --- great!

enjoy

ken

Right, got my second burndy to try but find the orientation of the pins at either end is at odds with how I need to connect to my 252/SC (which sit, divided, but side by side) without twisting the cable. Is there a way to alter the orientation of the plugs to fit the sockets without twisting? 

..to make it clearer - if I were fitting the sleeved end to SC instead of to 252 it would be ok.. The plugs are upside down for where I need them to be. Previous cable was the opposite.

Just wiggle it about to loosen it up and form it into the right shape. There is no need to twist it, just bend it in the opposite direction. 

Thanks HH - 'bend in opposite direction ' did it.. Wood/trees...

Eagle3333 - its hard to judge whether you are using a little poetic licence or not - but if the differences are extreme as you describe - something feels wrong - and I would involve your dealer.

In my experience a badly fitted burndy leads to a hardened sound, but not extremely so.. 

But as far as inserting the burndys try doing so by the wires rather than the plugs themselves.. these seems to help .. it did for me .. and is quite straightforward once aligned correctly.

Sometimes if you borrow a lead from another system, that lead would have been manipulated and settled in place for the relative positions of the components at each end of the lead. For example those that have separate brawn/brain stacks will have components in different relative positions to those that have one stack. Sometimes I have found it necessary to gently twist a borrowed lead so the pins align. Install one end first (the most awkwardly positioned end) then gently twist the lead along its entire length so the pins align with the pin sockets on the component at the other end.

This all assumes you have the correct replacement Burndy. If pins and pin sockets appear totally at odds, speak to your dealer before using too much force!

I think you are on the right track and bet it's the burndy that's causing the problem. I've had two sxps burndy's that have both given me grief. One has a very noticeable lack of high frequency detail and the other had something wrong with the bass. I should add that both were second hand, so no idea how they had been treated. I ended up buying a new one...it was a revelation compared to the others. You need to treat them like a HIline as I understand any substantial stain on the collars can damage the slight decoupling properties they have.

just one other thing, you mention your turntable earth is connected to your 252. I would just make sure that anything else equipped with variable earth should be set to float?

Oh...the easiest way I have found to orientate burndy's is to look for the extra wide guide track on the plug surround. This must be set at 12:00.

Thanks all. Despite being a 'creative', Simon, I try not to over-egg! Maybe it was the codeine for my slipped disc. In any event, I shook and waggled my Burndy as you and others mentioned in a previous post and it came good. The replacement sounds almost identical but a tiny bit harsher at leading edges - down to difference between 100 hrs play time on mine and none on the new one maybe? I still can't reproduce those 25 minutes. And now I've spent so much time listening to it as it is, I can't remember what the 25 minutes were like.

I have done a back to back with my 282 and find the major difference to be that the 252 makes the 282 sound like it has a loose bass bloom; which has the effect of softening or warming overall sound and hiding detail. Or p'raps it just doesn't dig out quite as much detail. The 252's bass is far more focused and doesn't interfere with other instruments, maybe allowing them to be more noticeable. It still sounds a bit harsh on leading edges and sometimes a bit thin. But my descriptions are all relative - my 'harsh' might be another man's 'detail'. I think, p'raps, this is just how it's meant to be. But I thought the difference between the two would be more night and day. In the past I read of QC issues - good 252's and less good ones; was that issue solved/baseless?

The Hugo which exacerbated the harsh edges - I found the Chord RCA/DIN cable I bought from a shop on fleabay was missing 2 pins in the DIN plug!

Geko - thanks; yes, I'm sure I read that this was the correct setting when something else in the system, like t/t, was earthed. Though, tbh, I can't hear any difference between floating and chassis on the NDX..

Eagle, you are right the difference between the 282 and 252 is not night and day, the differences are more suble but unmistakable. I did a lengthy bake-off between the 282 and 252 a few months ago where I descibe the differences I heard, of course using my ears, my system and my language. The rather snappy title of the thread from memory was - '282 vs 252, Which is Best? Only One Way to Find Out - Fight?' If you have a moment you could read through this to see if any of my experience of these two preamps aligns with what you are hearing. It might help you to assess if there is potentially any more to come from the 252 you have or indeed if there remains any potential issues with the rest of the system.

Of course you may conclude that this is it. And there are plenty who have chosen to stick with the 282 over the 252. I suspect however that as you have experienced the 252 sounding wonderful bereft of harshness and brashness, be it only for 25 mins, there is more to come from it. I must admit I never thought the 252 (which I now own) as harsh, quite the opposite. There is more detail and the bass is tighter and more controlled than the 282's which direct comparison with the 252 might make the latter sound a little more forward but I could never describe this as harsh. You definitely hear greater detail and insight with the 252, warts 'n' all which is not always good, particularly with poor recordings/mastering. I am not sure about the extent and existence of  burn-in changes with the 252 but of course you may be going through this if you have eliminated other potential issues. 

Would be interested to hear your final conclusion.

I have had a similar experience with my 552.

I took delivery early Feb this year,  being an ex demo which saw very little use, i was adviced that to really settle down and open out it could have demanded up to 3 months to settle down

 I was pretty skeptic about but over the last few weeks the change has been like night and day, there is now so much more body, scale, sweetness. The glare and congestion that i temporary suffered from the start is gone.

Like proof of this, Max Bertola that came around last Monday noticed exactly the same compared to his previous Visit.

The only change i did, was to keep the Snaic from the head to psu closer to Burndy.

Regards

Roberto

In the light of Roberto's post above I should point out that my 252 was pre-loved when I bought it and so was fully burned in.

Ummm.....as your 252 only has 70 hours, it could well be you are indeed 'suffering' with burn in. Never realised it could be so extreme though.

Very pertinent, thanks Nigel. I quite agree with your observations & will go read your post. Thanks for the insight Roberto, I hope this is the case in my situation, too. I've decided to keep the 252 and send the 282 off to my dealer in p/ex. I'd miss the insightfulness and bass control of the 252 too much, even given its current state. Will update as and when. 

Ian