Bi-wiring Unitiqute2

My experience of the UQ/NAP100 was that the 100 made a small but definite improvement when using 'difficult' speakers (ATC SCM11 in my case).  Bi-amping was horrible though - it sounded dark and confined. It sounded loveliest when I used the 100 as a power amp with the UQ power amp switched off.

Rather than bi-wiring, you may wish to try replacing the speaker jumpers with some decent cable - you may be surprised to hear quite a difference.

I still don't think that a 100 is enough. A used 200 would be my suggestion. You can find them for little more than the cost of a new 100.

Thanks for your suggestions!!

In Spain it is hard to find used Naim stuff, and impossible to recap them. So buying in UK and sending back there for its recap will increase the price of a second hand NAP200 a lot. Apart from that I have no big space to acomodate the HIFI system, so NAP100 form factor is very important for me.

I got an offer to get a brandnew NAP100 for 800€ (about 615 GBP) and I will go for it (In Spain the NAP100 price is 1100€~850GBP) so I think it is a good deal. I will give you my feedback asap.

...Javi

You really need to drive your speakers best and this doesn't automatically leads to success as the power amplifier is part of the game.

Forget about biamp and the likes it's just messing without a goal.

Also, You'll waste your money buying any nap100 and you're going to  unbalance things if you match a better power amplifier unless your plan is to improve source and pre amp.

In your shoes If budget is tight, selling the Qute would let you buy a SU and you're done.

Javi, it's a shame that you are ignoring all the advice. I've owned GB1s and the 100 is simply not up to the task and you are wasting your money. If you can't get a 200, the SuperUniti suggested by Antonio is a really good idea. 

Thanks for your adviceses. I do not plan to biamp the speakers, just to move from internal UQ2 amp section to an external NAP100. Some people on the forum indicates that the UQ2 + NAP100 is a good combination. Apart from that in Spain it is really hard to get second hand Naim stuff... and of course forget about recapp it. I will give a chance to the NAP100.

Thanks again for your advices.... Javi

Just get a two or three year old 200 from a UK dealer and have it shipped to Spain. Trust me, a 100 is not enough for the GB1.

Ok, I will take a look what can I get from UK. Thanks again.

Hi Javi,

Not wishing to put a spanner in the works, but here are a few things to consider...

Have you run in the speakers? These can take quite some time to run in, especially when underpowered, as in your case.

It has been mentioned to change the jumpers on the back of the speakers for real wire. This can make a HUGE difference! Try it, even with just some thick-ish used electrical wire.

Is there a reason you went with Chord Clearway instead of Naim NACA5? NACA5 is a more 'full-bodied' cable and brings many improvements over most cables in Naim systems.

I don't know how big your room is. If this is a large room (>35m2), then the Qute will always have difficulty making the relatively small GB1 couple to the volume of the room. In fact, the UnitiQute is rated at 30wpc into 8 and the minimum specification for the GB1i is 40-200w, so you're not even in the right spec. A more powerful amplifier would help. The NAP100 is more powerful, but the SuperUniti is in the next league up. Even the Uniti2 has a more capable amplifier. The difference is really substantial with the SuperUniti of course, and the form factor is effectively the same as the combined boxes you were considering.

Frank.

Dear Frank,

Thanks for your comments, they are really wellcome. I will try to change the jumpers with a heavy gauge electrical cable (i will take 6 mm² pieces from my lab) and tri it.

The spekers were demo ones, so I expect to be used for a while.

The reason for the cable is seller recomnedation and of couse in Spain is not possible to get the NAC-A5 from any dealer.

I know the UQ2 power is below the specks of the GB1i but the seller told me that UQ2 is enough for these speakers, but I see that it is not.

The form factor of UQ2 + NAP100 together is half of the Super-unity as I can stack them vertically ;-), so finally halve width, jejeje.

Thanks for your commens :-)

Don't stack the boxes on top of each other if you want to hear them working properly. 

Javi, it's a pity and really astonishes me being hard to source a reputable seller in Spain .

because you really need to listen for yourself complete set-ups as you look so much confused about anything relating to it. Stacking equipment is just for marketing purpose, it's just pics,  since this way of placement  has a strong negative impact on sound.

Do yourself a favor, don't buy anything now otherwise you'll regret in the future.

Why? due to heating reasons? Then is also not recommended to stack "regular" form factor Naim stuff? Just curious about it.

Thanks Antonio, I didn't read your comment. I will think about all these factors.

In Spain there is only 5 oficial Naim "reselers". A "storage centre" not a shop open to hte public and 4 apple stores (yes you read correctly, apple stores!!) That is everything. It is a really shame. Some other shops sell Naim stuff and the closest to my home is more than 100 kms away.

I will try the "jumpers" and I will wait for other amp options for later.

...Javi

yes Javi that's not related to heating only but there's vibration, interferences to factor etc.

A very good piece of advice would be to replace speakers with some easier load, but it won't be mine.

In fact as you like both sonic signatures ,and  they really match fine indeed, there's no need to change brands.

It's just, you have to know , each equipment must sit on a dedicated good shelf , and a NAP200 along with its ever important partners needs a good one, do you have it? Do you have one for each of them  uq and nap?

If not,that's where I'd start to invest ,even blind .

just keep in mind an all-in-one needs just one support. Besides, a SU would even be better than the couple above and it has the sonic signature of this UNITIfamily you like and need but better.

Afraid you can't try what advised but there's good deal of advice given to you from the members of the forum ... no hay mal que por bien no venga.

Javi A. posted:

Thanks Antonio, I didn't read your comment. I will think about all these factors.

In Spain there is only 5 oficial Naim "reselers". A "storage centre" not a shop open to hte public and 4 apple stores (yes you read correctly, apple stores!!) That is everything. It is a really shame. Some other shops sell Naim stuff and the closest to my home is more than 100 kms away.

I will try the "jumpers" and I will wait for other amp options for later.

...Javi

Even in Britain not everyone lives near a Naim dealer, or even a hifi shop of any kind: for me its 4 hours each way to the nearest one and at least £150 (€200), sometimes double that cost and return not always possible same day!  Maybe 100 km isn't so bad - but only if that dealer has a good selection.

Given that the solution isn't clearcut to you, if you want to be sure, the best thing to do is put your speakers in a car, UQ2 and your source too if dealer doesnt stock them, and some music, and drive to a dealer and spend a day listening to the options he can offer, if possible including the various suggestions on here, but maybe other things too. Although not as good as a home demo because the effects of your room would be different, it would give you a good comparative idea of how each option compares to your UQ. Then you can decide which makes the best improvement - and hopefully you'll find its a day well spent.

while at it you can compare your final choice stacked as you normally do, and on whatever choices of support the dealer has to offer, and decide for yourself whether the difference justifies the cost.

Perhaps it is cheaper to talk with the dealer. They allow to try headphones at your home before buying. Perhaps I can negotiate to send me a couple of modules for trying at home ;-)

I'll keep you informed.

Thanks... Javi

If they'll allow home audition of anything you want to try, then that is ideal, as long as you can get all the options you're interested in to try -  my suggestion was next best thing assuming they wouldn't, or wouldn't until you'd got as far as almost decided.

It is very much not recommended to stack components on top of each other! Here are a couple of reasons:

Power amplifiers have large toroidal transformers in them. Stacking causes the magnetic flux to swamp the other unit reducing dynamic range and contrast. If the other unit has a power supply like your Qute then this also interferes with the power amp for the same reason.

All equipment is sensitive to vibration which can affect other units stacked on it. The vibration can be caused by dirty mains, making the transformer shake and even causing hum. This would be transmitted directly into the delicate electronics in the Qute, again reducing dynamic range and resolution.

In the higher end equipment, e.g. Superline and CDX2, Naim uses hard feet. Placing such a unit on another one will mark it due to the pressure of the weight.

Regards, Frank.

Frank Abela posted:

Hi Javi,

Not wishing to put a spanner in the works, but here are a few things to consider...

Have you run in the speakers? These can take quite some time to run in, especially when underpowered, as in your case.

It has been mentioned to change the jumpers on the back of the speakers for real wire. This can make a HUGE difference! Try it, even with just some thick-ish used electrical wire.

Is there a reason you went with Chord Clearway instead of Naim NACA5? NACA5 is a more 'full-bodied' cable and brings many improvements over most cables in Naim systems.

I don't know how big your room is. If this is a large room (>35m2), then the Qute will always have difficulty making the relatively small GB1 couple to the volume of the room. In fact, the UnitiQute is rated at 30wpc into 8 and the minimum specification for the GB1i is 40-200w, so you're not even in the right spec. A more powerful amplifier would help. The NAP100 is more powerful, but the SuperUniti is in the next league up. Even the Uniti2 has a more capable amplifier. The difference is really substantial with the SuperUniti of course, and the form factor is effectively the same as the combined boxes you were considering.

Frank.

Dear Frank,

I just change the metallic jumpers of the speakers with a regular electrical 10 mm^2 wires and the improvement in detail was incredible, or my mind says that, as it is no possible to make a real time comparison. I will look for an specific hifi jumper cable as I see just with a small invest on my setup it can be much better.

My old burned setup was biwired so I did not use the jumpers. That matches with the detail that it had.

Thanks... Javi

Javi,

Look up "F connection" in this forum - it shows a better way of doing it.
But pleased the jumper arrangement works as well as bi-wiring - it's a lot cheaper!

Javi, 

Good to read that. Those links should be banned! The 10mm2 links are probably fine enough for now. You should also experiment with which connections to use. E.g., should you use positive to treble and negative to bass connection? Or both to treble? Or both to bass? What you choose will make subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) changes to the presentation. 

As Huge mentions, the best connection is an F-type connection using Naim banana plugs because they are perpendicular to the wire. This is a fiddly but effective solution and usually used with NACA5 which would open things up for you, but that costs money.

My suggestion...run in the system for a week with the new jumpers and see where you are then. 

Frank.

Dear all thanks for all your comments!!

I will finally move to a Superuniti. I found a second hand unit in Uk and the seller ships to Spain... I hope to get it in a couple of weeks!!

Keep imformed as I will have both at home at the same time...Javi

Finally I got the SU!!

I just recived it today. I have updated its firmware to the lastest version and.... now PMCs really rocks!!

Thanks for all your advices!!

...Javi